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Contenido proporcionado por Stacey Richter. Todo el contenido del podcast, incluidos episodios, gráficos y descripciones de podcast, lo carga y proporciona directamente Stacey Richter o su socio de plataforma de podcast. Si cree que alguien está utilizando su trabajo protegido por derechos de autor sin su permiso, puede seguir el proceso descrito aquí https://es.player.fm/legal.
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Squid Game is back, and so is Player 456. In the gripping Season 2 premiere, Player 456 returns with a vengeance, leading a covert manhunt for the Recruiter. Hosts Phil Yu and Kiera Please dive into Gi-hun’s transformation from victim to vigilante, the Recruiter’s twisted philosophy on fairness, and the dark experiments that continue to haunt the Squid Game. Plus, we touch on the new characters, the enduring trauma of old ones, and Phil and Kiera go head-to-head in a game of Ddakjji. Finally, our resident mortician, Lauren Bowser is back to drop more truth bombs on all things death. SPOILER ALERT! Make sure you watch Squid Game Season 2 Episode 1 before listening on. Let the new games begin! IG - @SquidGameNetflix X (f.k.a. Twitter) - @SquidGame Check out more from Phil Yu @angryasianman , Kiera Please @kieraplease and Lauren Bowser @thebitchinmortician on IG Listen to more from Netflix Podcasts . Squid Game: The Official Podcast is produced by Netflix and The Mash-Up Americans.…
Relentless Health Value™
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Contenido proporcionado por Stacey Richter. Todo el contenido del podcast, incluidos episodios, gráficos y descripciones de podcast, lo carga y proporciona directamente Stacey Richter o su socio de plataforma de podcast. Si cree que alguien está utilizando su trabajo protegido por derechos de autor sin su permiso, puede seguir el proceso descrito aquí https://es.player.fm/legal.
American Healthcare Entrepreneurs and Execs you might want to know. Talking. Relentless Health Value is a weekly interview podcast hosted by Stacey Richter, a healthcare entrepreneur celebrating fifteen years in the business side of healthcare. This show is for leaders in pharma, devices, payers, providers, patient advocacy and healthcare business. It's for health industry innovators, entrepreneurs or wantrepreneurs or intrapreneurs. Relentless Healthcare Value is the show for you if you want to connect with others trying to manage the triple play: to provide healthcare value while being personally and professionally fulfilled.
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568 episodios
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Contenido proporcionado por Stacey Richter. Todo el contenido del podcast, incluidos episodios, gráficos y descripciones de podcast, lo carga y proporciona directamente Stacey Richter o su socio de plataforma de podcast. Si cree que alguien está utilizando su trabajo protegido por derechos de autor sin su permiso, puede seguir el proceso descrito aquí https://es.player.fm/legal.
American Healthcare Entrepreneurs and Execs you might want to know. Talking. Relentless Health Value is a weekly interview podcast hosted by Stacey Richter, a healthcare entrepreneur celebrating fifteen years in the business side of healthcare. This show is for leaders in pharma, devices, payers, providers, patient advocacy and healthcare business. It's for health industry innovators, entrepreneurs or wantrepreneurs or intrapreneurs. Relentless Healthcare Value is the show for you if you want to connect with others trying to manage the triple play: to provide healthcare value while being personally and professionally fulfilled.
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×1 EP461: Pick Only One, Plan Sponsors: Do You Want to Control GLP-1 Volume or Control GLP-1 Unit Cost? With Chris Crawford 22:42
This episode is not about the when, why, or how of GLP-1s for weight loss or best-practice prescribing; and we do not wade into anything about lifestyle changes or who is adherent or clinical considerations and needed support. There are a plethora of shows on these topics, and this is not one of them. This episode very, very specifically is about the how and why of the pickle plan sponsors get themselves into often enough where if they impose formulary restrictions to limit the volume of meds that they are paying for, then unit prices go up, which is a thing for GLP-1s. For a full transcript of this episode, click here . If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe. And this is critical just given how the costs associated with GLP-1s for weight loss contribute to some pretty significant increases in pharmacy trend for plan sponsors who choose to cover the GLP-1s for weight loss. Okay, so back to the conundrum topic of this podcast. Let us dig into the “What is going on here?” portion of this episode. Keep in mind, total plan sponsor pharmacy trend or the total cost of drugs is going to be this equation: drug volume times the unit price of each drug. Thus, the pickle if you’re trying to lower total cost because, as I just mentioned as is often the case for plan sponsors, you can have an either-or scenario on your hands. You can either lower volume and pay a higher unit price or vice versa, but not both. So, yeah … it’s not easy to lower pharmacy trend when you’re faced with this either-or scenario. So, we talk about this relative to GLP-1s today, and we also talk about how those new direct-to-consumer Web sites that some of the manufacturers like Lilly and Pfizer are standing up, the why these can matter to plan sponsors in interesting ways, which really I had not thought about before this conversation with Chris Crawford. Bottom line, there are some really impactful and not frequently delved into perverse incentives at play here. And we’re gonna talk about these today. And these are really key for anybody on or about the pharmacy supply chain in the U.S. to know about. This is very actionable insight. So, again, there’s an unfortunate tradeoff, as it stands right now, for many plan sponsors. Lower your volume and raise the unit price or vice versa. Here’s the short version of the tangled web of the story for how this tradeoff comes to be. Once upon a time, a plan sponsor does an RFP (request for proposal) for PBMs (pharmacy benefit managers) to manage their branded drugs. And I keep saying branded drugs because there’s a whole different story here, which is similar but not the same for generics and also so-called specialty generics that I’m not gonna talk about with Chris Crawford today but I will talk with him about it next month. So, stay tuned. But in this case, there’s an RFP sent out, and part of that RFP is evaluating PBMs on their “rebate yields.” So, we, the plan sponsor, are going to evaluate PBMs and pick our RFP winner, not based on their lowest unit net prices but on how big the kitty of rebates they can drag in is. Pausing to reflect on that last part of our hypothetical play-by-play. We, this hypothetical plan sponsor and/or our broker consultant, are evaluating PBMs based on the size of their rebates; and we’re gonna pick the PBM with the biggest rebates, thus the biggest rebate yield. A few issues here. What does this incent? I’ll take higher list prices as my first guess because obviously the higher the list, the bigger the rebate yield can be. But what it also incents is a little less, I’m gonna say, brutally obvious. Say I’m a PBM or whatever, a GPO (group purchasing organization). Say I go to a pharma manufacturer, and I demand a ginormous rebate. What is Pharma going to ask for in return in their negotiation with me, the PBM? Oh, right … Pharma is going to say, “Well, sure, I’ll give you that bigger rebate but only if you can guarantee me volume. Only if you do not restrict access to my pharmaceutical product. If you restrict access and limit the ability of any member to get access to my drug and, therefore, lower my drug sales volume that’s possible within this contract, then all bets are off and no rebates for you.” Okay, so the PBM is incented to maximize rebate yield. So, the PBM is gonna angle to get the biggest rebates possible. And in this scenario, if the rebates go up, net unit prices will, in fact, go down for the plan sponsor. However, the PBM’s leverage to get those bigger rebates is to pull back restrictions. So, the lower the unit cost, the higher the volume of patients are now going to be eligible to get that drug without restrictions because there can be no restrictions beyond maybe the usage restrictions indicated in the pharma package insert/label. And now, here we are at the finale of our play-by-play, where plan sponsors are asked to choose the side of the balloon that they are going to squeeze. And they can only pick one side: Lower unit prices and volume goes up, or lower volume and unit prices go up. For more on this whole dynamic and how it can go horribly wrong, read the article in the New York Times (you are welcome) about how PBMs took secret payments for the free flow of opioids. My guest, Chris Crawford, excitingly enough, gives us a sort of “have your cake and eat it, too” option in the conversation that follows. And this third way is now available because of the growing cash marketplace that is emerging and getting bigger and bigger. It’s growing, this cash marketplace, because the more times a patient wanders into a pharmacy with a discount card or shops on Mark Cuban or Amazon or goes to a direct-to-consumer Web site and discovers that they can get a drug or an MRI or other medical service, nothing for nothing, but if they discover that they can get whatever it is they’re looking for for less than they would pay if they used their insurance … yeah. Every time that happens, the cash marketplace grows; and this is happening a lot. Middlemen are taking such a chunk of overall healthcare spend that cutting them out has become a very fruitful endeavor. Okay, so the solution Chris Crawford offers up today is for plan sponsors to leverage this cash marketplace. Members get a discount card with money put on it (potentially) by the plan sponsor. This lets employers get the frequently lower cash price, and employees get dollars on their card to that end (potentially). So, a plan sponsor can restrict access to GLP-1s through their PBM for weight loss but then choose to give some members who qualify based on whatever criteria the plan sponsor wants to set. They can give members money toward the purchase of the GLP-1s, and then they, the member, can go buy them at a direct-to-consumer Web site. This whole thing, by the way, has nothing to do with the PBM contract. It’s not considered, I guess, a carve-out. It’s nothing that any PBM has to approve. What’s crazy to me is that the cash price for GLP-1s, the branded ones, can be better than the PBM-negotiated net prices. That’s just nuts to hear, given all the talk about needing the muscle of a big PBM to negotiate those rebate yields but, I don’t know, maybe not as surprising as it should be. This episode is sponsored by RxSaveCard , and a big thanks for that. I really appreciate RxSaveCard for its financial support because this episode covers a really important topic that we probably would have covered anyway over here at Relentless Health Value. And so, RxSaveCard standing up and offering their financial support to cover it was a really nice thing to do. And I thank them for their generosity. Also mentioned in this episode are RxSaveCard ; Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drug Company ; Brian Reid ; Ge Bai, PhD, CPA ; and Luke Slindee, PharmD . You can learn more at RxSaveCard.com and on LinkedIn and by following Chris on LinkedIn . Chris Crawford is CEO and founder of RxSaveCard, with a mission to make prescriptions more affordable for employers and their employees. He recognized the complexities and frustrations often associated with changing pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) and sought a better way. He also recognized that in many cases, prescriptions cost more when someone uses their insurance than what is available through “cash” and discount card options. RxSaveCard is the solution: a simple way to unlock lower cash and discount card prices without requiring a PBM switch, all while ensuring compliance with ERISA fiduciary standards. Chris has over 25 years of experience in employee benefits, including 9 years at Mercer, where he served in national leadership roles. He also founded a benefits consulting firm in 2009, CMC Advisory Group, that was sold to Cottingham & Butler in 2015. More recently, he has narrowed his focus to pharmacy benefits and the PBM industry. Prior to founding RxSaveCard, he served as chief growth officer for VIVIO , a specialty drug management solution. Prior to VIVIO, Chris served as chief growth officer for HealthStrategy, LLC , a leading pharmacy benefits consulting firm that manages over $150 billion in drug spend for many of the largest employers and health plans in the United States. 07:57 What are the two pieces going on with GLP-1 PBM prices and rebates for employers? 10:00 Is the cash price for these name brand drugs currently less than the rebated PBM price? 11:49 Why does the rebate for GLP-1s disappear if employers try to put restrictions on who can receive access to these drugs? 15:07 Where does RxSaveCard come in to play here? 19:55 “We exist to save people money.” 20:45 EP456 with Brian Reid. 21:16 EP356 with Ge Bai, PhD, CPA. 21:37 EP439 with Luke Slindee, PharmD. You can learn more at RxSaveCard.com and on LinkedIn and by following Chris on LinkedIn . Chris Crawford of #rxsavecard discusses #GLP1 on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #changemanagement #healthcareleadership #healthcaretransformation #healthcareinnovation Recent past interviews: Click a guest’s name for their latest RHV episode! Dr Rushika Fernandopulle , Bill Sarraille , Stacey Richter (INBW41) , Andreas Mang (Encore! EP419) , Dr Komal Bajaj , Cynthia Fisher , Stacey Richter (INBW40) , Mark Cuban and Ferrin Williams (Encore! EP418) , Rob Andrews (Encore! EP415) , Brian Reid…
In this Relentless Health Value episode, Dr. Rushika Fernandopulle discusses with Stacey Richter his four-prong theory of change for transforming the American healthcare system. Key topics include the necessity of new payment models, process innovation, employing a relational technology infrastructure, shifting the cultural mindset towards team-based care, and emphasizing the importance of long-term partnerships. The conversation underscores the urgent need to move away from the current status quo to ensure better health outcomes and affordable care for all Americans. This is one of those episodes where we consider top-line strategic imperatives and key drivers. There was no better person to do this with than Rushika Fernandopulle, MD, who, in case you were unaware, was the founder of Iora Health, an advanced primary care group that was sold to One Medical and then to Amazon. They discusses his four-prong theory and as Stacey says, "I can’t leave well enough alone, so I plucked one more prong from our conversation and stuck it on the end." For a summary of this 5 prong approach, visit the show notes page where we also list all of the links mentioned in the episode. === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: https://cc-lnk.com/EP460 ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe 🎤 Listen on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/feed/id892082003?ls=1 🎤 Listen on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/6UjgzI7bScDrWvZEk2f46b 📺 Subscribe to our YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@RelentlessHealthValue === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/relentless-health-value/ ✭ Threads https://www.threads.net/@relentlesshealthvalue/ ✭ X https://twitter.com/relentleshealth/ ✭ Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/relentleshealth.bsky.social 06:39 How Dr. Rushika Fernandopulle found himself where he is now. 08:06 Dr. Fernandopulle’s conversation with Kenny Cole, MD. 10:33 Why is it important to have new payment models? 12:21 EP453 with Claire Brockbank. 14:50 EP455 with Beau Raymond, MD. 16:19 Why it makes sense to change as quickly as possible. 19:55 How to be proactive and not be reactive and achieve value-based reimbursement for good care. 21:41 Why team-based care is so important for change. 23:37 Why is it important to have a different set of technology tools? 24:38 EP391 with Scott Conard, MD. 25:24 Why changing the culture is important. 27:01 “Getting doctors to do things they don’t like is a waste of time.” 33:22 “Healthcare is local.” 35:31 EP364 with David Muhlestein, PhD, JD. 35:43 Study by Zack Cooper, PhD. 36:53 EP404 with Suhas Gondi, MD, MBA. 39:04 Why long-term partnerships are the only way to make things better.…
1 EP459: Cost Containment by Co-Pay Maximizer or Co-Pay Accumulator: Points to Ponder, With Bill Sarraille 39:47
In Episode 459, host Stacey Richter speaks with healthcare attorney Bill Sarraille about co-pay maximizers and accumulators, mechanisms designed to extract maximum co-pay support dollars from pharmaceutical companies. They discuss the financial implications for patients, plan sponsors, and pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), emphasizing the legal and ethical issues and potential patient harm due to high out-of-pocket costs and surprise expenses. Sarraille provides five key pieces of advice for plan sponsors and highlights the importance of transparency and proper utilization management to minimize patient access problems and legal risks. Listen or read the show notes on our site for the full list. (continued below the links) === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: https://cc-lnk.com/EP459 ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe ===CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/relentless-health-value/ ✭ Threads https://www.threads.net/@relentlesshealthvalue/ ✭ X https://twitter.com/relentleshealth/ ✭ Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/relentleshealth.bsky.social Co-pay maximizers and accumulators are programs designed to capture maximum co-pay assistance from phara. Maximizers spread pharma co-pay support evenly throughout the year, ensuring plan sponsors benefit while, in theory, patients face minimal costs. More on how that can go wrong in the episode. Accumulators, however, design their plan to deplete pharma dollar support quickly, surprising patients with significant out-of-pocket expenses mid-year when they go visit the pharmacy. These programs usually exclude pharma assistance dollars from deductibles, potentially causing financial hardship because when pharma is paying your co-pay, those payments don't count against your deductible. 09:31 What should plan sponsors be aware of right now? 14:01 What is the justification for maximizers, and why is this at odds with the purpose of insurance? 18:05 Where does the issue of “fairness” land within cost containment? 20:00 Brian Reid’s LinkedIn post on insurance company access challenges. 21:30 What are the real legal issues presented by some of these co-pay maximizers and co-pay accumulator programs? 27:06 How are these programs creating perverse incentives? 29:28 EP450 with Marilyn Bartlett, CPA, CGMA, CMA, CFM. 32:16 “If you’re covered by the ACA, I think this is unlawful.” 32:57 What advice does Bill have in regard to these programs? 33:49 What potential litigations does Bill see coming in the near future in regard to these co-pay maximizers and co-pay accumulator programs?…
In this Inbetweenisode titled 'End of Year Wrap Up and My Personal Charter Encore,' Stacey Richter extends heartfelt thanks to listeners and healthcare workers for their dedication. She reflects on the challenges of maintaining personal integrity in a profit-driven healthcare system and introduces her personal charter. This charter, focused on ensuring net positive outcomes for patients, acknowledges that achieving transformational change in healthcare requires a collective effort. Stacey discusses the complexities of balancing ethical decisions, financial constraints, and the broader impact on patient care, urging others to reflect on their own guiding principles. Here's her manifesto which she is now calling her Personal Charter below which she breaks down in this podcast episode: "If the thing results in a net positive for patients, then I will do it. The timeframe is short-term or medium-term. And the assumption is that it will take a village and I am not alone in my efforts to transform healthcare or do right by patients." === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: https://cc-lnk.com/INBW41 ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/relentless-health-value/ ✭ Threads https://www.threads.net/@relentlesshealthvalue/ ✭ X https://twitter.com/relentleshealth/ ✭ Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/relentleshealth.bsky.social 06:52 “It’s a zero-sum game.” 07:02 Is the amount of profit fair? 07:13 What is an inescapable fact of the healthcare industry? 07:30 What does the financialization of healthcare mean? 07:55 Why does the self-interest in healthcare matter? 09:54 “It’s basically up to us as individuals to do the right thing.” 13:39 What is the first part of Stacey’s personal charter? 13:54 How does Stacey calculate the net positive of an impact? 14:17 What are two major upsides/downsides that Stacey contemplates? 17:08 Why are incremental change and disruptive change not mutually exclusive? 21:16 “I always try to keep in mind that it will take a village.” 22:55 Why finger pointing is killing innovation in healthcare.…
1 Encore! EP419: The Financialization of Health Benefits for Boards of Directors and C-Suites of Self-Insured Employers, With Andreas Mang 38:38
Are you on the board of directors of a company? Or are you a shareholder of a publicly traded company? Or are you a CEO or a CFO or in-house counsel who reports to a board of directors or these shareholders? Well, this show is for you. And it’s about how the healthcare industry has become financialized at the same time that providing health benefits has become the second-biggest line item after payroll for most companies. We talked about that in a recent encore with Mark Cuban ( EP418 ) also, as well as the show with Cora Opsahl ( EP452 ) and Claire Brockbank ( EP453 ) from 32BJ. In this encore episode of 'Relentless Health Value,' Stacey Richter interviews Andreas Mang from Blackstone about the financialization of health benefits for boards of directors and C-suites of self-insured employers. They discuss the unseen financial layers in healthcare benefits and how companies can save significantly while improving employee satisfaction and health. === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: https://cc-lnk.com/EP458 ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/relentless-health-value/ ✭ Threads https://www.threads.net/@relentlesshealthvalue/ ✭ X https://twitter.com/relentleshealth/ ✭ Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/relentleshealth.bsky.social 04:55 Why Andreas starts every conversation with the question, “How’s your healthcare company?” 07:38 Why is it important, as a self-insured employer, to treat your business as a small healthcare company? 09:16 Why is it unnatural for companies to be providing health insurance? 10:47 What can be achieved when there is alignment between employers and insurers? 12:41 What things can a company do to reduce spend by 10%? 14:14 Why is it better to have CFO engagement in the benefits plan throughout the year? 16:25 Why does self-insurance save 5% to 9% for companies automatically? 18:14 “The funding isn’t a healthcare thing; it’s a CFO thing.” 18:27 Why is it vital to have a reliable, trustworthy broker? 25:12 When is the last time your company has RFP’d their health plan? 27:39 Why does changing a health plan feel scary but is necessary? 28:31 What is a dependent eligibility audit? 31:20 Why are employers better together? 34:34 How do employers truly get a flat-fee model with brokers?…
1 EP458: A Really Unexpected Consideration for Solving Staffing Shortages That Impact Access and Care Quality That Is Based on a Ton of Evidence, With Komal Bajaj, MD 36:44
In Episode 458 of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter speaks with Dr. Komal Bajaj about innovative strategies for addressing staffing shortages in the healthcare sector. They explore the importance of cultural alignment within organizations, emphasizing trust and shared values to retain staff. Dr. Bajaj shares surprising findings from surveys indicating that healthcare workers are motivated by the goal of providing high-quality, planet-friendly care. The discussion highlights the interconnectedness of environmental sustainability and healthcare quality, presenting tangible ways to engage and empower healthcare workers while addressing both local community health and broader environmental concerns. The episode underscores the strategic importance of aligning organizational goals with the aspirations of the workforce to foster trust and mitigate staffing shortages. Stacey's guest today is Dr. Komal Bajaj. Dr. Bajaj is an ob-gyn who serves as the chief quality officer for a couple of hospitals in the Bronx, New York, that are part of the municipal health system of New York. She also now serves as medical director of sustainability for the municipal health system NYC Health + Hospitals. === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: https://cc-lnk.com/EP458 ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/relentless-health-value/ ✭ Threads https://www.threads.net/@relentlesshealthvalue/ ✭ X https://twitter.com/relentleshealth/ ✭ Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/relentleshealth.bsky.social 08:20 How do we quantify the issue of staffing shortages? 11:18 Why do we need to look at the root cause of the shortages? 11:51 Deloitte survey on staffing shortages. 11:54 Why is trust one of the core problems when it comes to staffing shortages? 13:59 “Healthcare workers have choice.” 15:34 What are the strongest correlations that influence healthcare workers’ desire to stay? 18:17 What things give healthcare workers the most pause? 19:36 The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Health Sector climate pledge . 20:20 The Commonwealth Fund survey on what health systems can do to address climate change. 22:29 What do we do about sustainable, climate-friendly healthcare being a driving factor in staffing? 27:28 How do you meet the desires of healthcare workers where they’re at?…
1 EP457: It’s a Big Thing: Medical Spread Pricing. So, Let’s Talk About Contract Transparency, With Cynthia Fisher 34:15
In this episode of 'Relentlessly Seeking Value,' host Stacey Richter is joined by healthcare entrepreneur Cynthia Fisher to discuss the crucial issue of medical spread pricing and the need for contract transparency. Fisher explains how hidden fees and spread pricing by middlemen are leading to substantial overcharges for employers and patients in the U.S. healthcare system. The conversation delves into recent lawsuits that highlight these practices, the legislative strides made to enforce price transparency, and how transparency can potentially transform the industry. Look, this is a thing now, medical spread. And similar to how PBM spreads adds up to millions, billions of dollars, medical spread is not change in the couch cushions. Did you see the lawsuit against Cigna? Cynthia Fisher mentions it in the conversation that follows. Spoiler alert, here’s the numbers: Self-insured employer paid $4 million for a claim. There’s a slide on this Cynthia Fisher gave me, by the way, if you want to see all this written out. So, the employer pays $4 million. The provider was paid—drumroll, please—$876,000. I’m pausing so that sinks in: $4 million paid by the employer; $876,000 of that makes it across the trench to the provider. To view the meme we created for how carriers are learning to do spread pricing from the PBMs, visit our show notes page below. (continued after the links below) === LINKS === 🔗 Show Notes with all mentioned links: https://cc-lnk.com/EP457 ✉️ Enjoy this podcast? Subscribe to the free weekly newsletter: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe 🫙 Support the podcast with a small donation to the Tip Jar: https://relentlesshealthvalue.com/join-the-relentless-tribe === CONNECT WITH THE RHV TEAM === ✭ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/relentless-health-value/ ✭ Threads https://www.threads.net/@relentlesshealthvalue/ ✭ X https://twitter.com/relentleshealth/ ✭ Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/relentleshealth.bsky.social Fisher emphasizes the importance of employers and unions demanding accountability, using existing laws to unveil true pricing, and advocates for a revolution in healthcare to ensure fair, equitable, and transparent billing. Insights are also shared from industry experts who were previous guests including Chris Deacon, Justin Leader, and Andreas Mang. You can find the links in the show notes on our site. 09:03 What is the goal of PatientRightsAdvocate.org? 10:28 Is American competitiveness being affected by healthcare spend? 13:47 Why is transparency a root cause to healthcare costs? 15:11 What’s going on across the country to empower transparency in healthcare? 19:31 “I think people are fed up.” 21:22 The Cigna lawsuit in California. 26:36 How do employers navigate contracts against anti-steering? 28:54 EP419 with Andreas Mang. 29:33 EP452 with Cora Opsahl and EP453 with Claire Brockbank. 29:45 EP433 with Justin Leader. You can learn more at PatientRightsAdvocate.org .…
1 INBW40: Thank Yous and the Intersection of Product Value, Collaboration, and Being a “Giver” 17:41
In this special Thanksgiving episode of Relentlessly Seeking Value, Stacey Richter discusses the significance of being 'givers' in healthcare, advocating for collaboration over transactional relationships to deliver real value to patients. She touches on the challenges and necessary shifts in healthcare market dynamics, emphasizing that true value is determined through bi-directional conversations between providers and end-users, like patients and plan sponsors. Stacey concludes with a call to action for listeners to reflect on their support networks and consider supporting valuable media and publications. To read the show notes with the mentioned links visit the epsiode page . If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe. I want to drop a thank you right here to those who have left a tip in our tip jar and/or offer up a monthly contribution. From the bottom of my heart, thanks for the support. Thank you to Dr. Scott Tromanhauser , Marilyn Bartlett , Ann Kempski , Dr. Matthew Bunte . Also, thank you to Brian Uhlig , Dr. William Gailmard , Dr. John Lee , Dr. Paula Muto , and Linda Krebs . Plus everyone else who left a lesser amount. You guys are my village, and this matters because, as it’s been said by me and others a million times, it will take a village to transform healthcare. So, if you haven’t already done so, because … yeah, Thanksgiving, consider who is on your own list of villagers to thank right about now in your world. So, yeah, long story long, all the more thanks to everyone who has donated to our tip jar , who has written a nice review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify , or who interacts with our posts on LinkedIn . Thank you. This is how pods like this and any of the publications that you like are able to continue. It’s also, if you want to get really “why do givers succeed” about it, it’s through these interactions that like 99% of guests I’d estimate who get invited on a podcast, probably any podcasts, come from, or who likely get their name in any publication come from. As I said, this is true for this pod at least. But I would say that who are most hosts or most reporters going to reach out to when they need information or insight and are looking to quote somebody? It’s gonna be somebody that they know. It’s gonna be somebody that they like. So, giving, the healthcare industry. This is the actual point I wanted to make before I completely distracted myself. And I talked about this at length actually at a recent thINc360 panel about delivering better patient outcomes. So, collaborate, give. And thank you to all of you who do both of these things every day, despite the cognitive dissonance and corporate forces and the lack of time and resources that may plague your efforts. I appreciate you very, very much. And it is this gang—the Relentless Tribe, that listens to this show—it is you who will transform healthcare. It’s really you. And again, from the bottom of my heart, I thank you. 01:33 How do you calculate the number of people you’ve helped? 02:46 Why is giving so important within healthcare? 03:16 Interview with Adam Grant. 05:47 How can you be a better giver? 07:50 Who is in charge of the bidirectional conversation of value? 11:35 Why is collaboration so important to value and being a giver? 12:58 Why is it important that plan sponsors are a part of all this giving and collaboration? 13:22 Encore! EP415 with Rob Andrews. 14:34 Summer Shorts 8 with Larry Bauer, MSW, MEd. 15:08 INBW39 with Stacey on the narcissism of small differences. 15:12 EP399 and EP400 with Stacey.…
1 Encore! EP418: Mark Cuban With a PSA for CEOs and CFOs of Self-insured Employers, With Mark Cuban and Ferrin Williams, PharmD, MBA, From Scripta 56:16
In this encore episode, Mark Cuban discusses his insights and experiences on disrupting the healthcare and pharmacy benefits landscape with Stacey Richter. This show from last year was one of the most popular episodes of the past year. And it’s also extremely relevant right now, given all of the PBM (pharmacy benefit manager) goings-on, as well as ongoing litigation like the J&J lawsuit , etc. Listen to the show with Julie Selesnick ( EP428 ) for more on that one. You can find the show notes with all links mentioned and a transcript on our episode page. If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe. Joined by Ferrin Williams from Scripta, Cuban stresses the importance for CEOs and CFOs of self-insured companies to get actively involved in their healthcare plans to avoid overpaying. The conversation tackles the opaque practices of PBMs, the financialized nature of the healthcare industry, and introduces Mark Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs model which aims for transparency and cost reduction. Key topics also include the potential legal implications for employers, the importance of trust in healthcare transactions, and the real-world savings and benefits achievable with greater involvement and transparency in healthcare management. What do all of these numbers have in common: $140,000, $3 million, $35 million, and $3 billion? These are all actual examples of how much employers, unions, and some public entities saved on healthcare benefits for themselves and their employees. The roadmap to saving 25% on pharmacy spend and/or 15% on total cost of care in ways that improve employee health and satisfaction always begins when one thing happens. There’s one vital first step. That first step is CEOs and/or CFOs or their equivalents roll up their sleeves and get involved in healthcare benefits. Read the full article/show notes with all the mentioned links here: https://cc-lnk.com/Encore418 06:29 What was Mark Cuban’s own journey as a self-insured employer with Cost Plus Drug Company? 07:44 What did Mark find when he decided to go through and look through his company’s benefit program? 09:12 “When you think it through, you start to realize that money is being spent primarily by your sickest employees.” —Mark 10:02 How do you get CEOs and CFOs of self-insured employers to realize that their sickest employees are the ones subsidizing their checks? 13:00 What is the role of insurance in healthcare? 14:30 “If you can’t convince them, confuse them and hide it.” —Mark 15:24 The reality behind getting a rebate check. 16:21 Why are rebates going away, and why isn’t that changing PBM earnings? 19:05 How do you get CEOs and CFOs to dig into their benefits plan? 20:59 Does morally abhorrent move the needle? 21:33 “What we’re trying to do is just simplify the [healthcare] industry.” —Mark 24:19 What’s been changing in consumer behavior? 25:04 “Transparency is a huge part of building that trust.” —Ferrin 25:19 Why CEOs and CFOs really have the power to change healthcare. 32:29 What are Cost Plus Drugs’ plans to expand? 39:21 Where is the future of the prescription drug market going? 42:09 What will happen to the prescription drug market in 10 to 20 years? 48:40 The wake-up call self-insured employers should be acknowledging now. 52:02 Where is the real change in the healthcare industry going to come from?…
1 Encore! EP415: Some Jumbo Employers Buying Better Healthcare Outcomes While Saving 15% on Total Cost of Care, With Rob Andrews 39:39
In this episode, Stacey Richter speaks with Rob Andrews, CEO of the Health Transformation Alliance (HTA) and former Congressman, about the strategic steps jumbo employers can take to achieve improved health outcomes while reducing cost. They delve into the importance of using data to discern effective practices, negotiate contracts, and hold intermediaries accountable. To Read The Show Notes With All Mentioned Links, Visit the Episode Page . If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe. The discussion highlights maternal health as a critical area of focus, with successful interventions shown to reduce NICU admissions and overall healthcare costs. Andrews emphasizes the role of self-insured employers in driving systemic changes that align financial incentives with health outcomes. This encore is very relevant after the shows with Cora Opsahl ( EP452 ), Claire Brockbank ( EP453 ), and Marilyn Bartlett ( EP450 ). Getting better health for the 160 million Americans covered by commercial insurance is all about rates, rights, and power. 07:34 How did Rob get to his current role? 09:08 The problem of maternal health and mortality rate, and how self-insured employers wind up directly and indirectly paying for this. 10:27 Why economic consequences move the needle, and why sometimes they don’t. 12:26 Why the best way to address costs isn’t to re-shift costs but to address them directly. 13:22 Why compensation that isn’t dependent on outcomes is a problem. 16:23 “Strategy’s not what people say; it’s what they do.” 18:21 How do you operationalize saving money with better outcomes? 26:26 How do employers turn conflict into collaboration? 28:20 What is the win-win-win structure among employers, payers, and providers in Rob’s eyes? 30:53 To whom should the task of risk adjustment fall? 34:43 “Better contracts do improve outcomes.”…
1 EP456: Advice to Pharma at the Intersection of Product Value, Reputation, and Patient Affordability, With Brian Reid 39:30
In this comprehensive episode host Stacey Richter sits down with Brian Reid to discuss pivotal aspects for the pharmaceutical industry. Key topics include understanding product value from the perspectives of plan sponsors, patients, and society, and the significance of benefit design in improving patient affordability. For the show notes with all links mentinoed, visit the episode page . If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe. The discussion delves into the complexities of drug pricing, the roles of Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBMs) and brokers, and the impact of healthcare consolidation on costs. Reid emphasizes the importance of transparent communication among stakeholders, the detrimental effects of cost containment strategies, and the necessity of considering policy and reputational impacts. Throughout the conversation, examples such as the Hepatitis C drug illustrate the broader implications on drug access and affordability. Listeners are provided with critical insights into how pharmaceutical companies can better engage with ultimate purchasers to ensure patients receive necessary, cost-effective medications while navigating a changing healthcare landscape. For the show notes with all links mentinoed, visit the episode page . 08:29 Why is it important to understand the term “value” in respect to medicine? 10:07 Why is it important to consider all the players affected by the idea of this “value”? 11:06 Who are the ultimate purchasers in Pharma? 12:23 Findings of the Kaiser Employer Health Benefits Survey . 14:52 Why does it matter that we consider what value looks like to all players affected by Pharma? 16:46 EP300 with Bruce Rector, MD. 18:38 EP448 (Part 1) with Shawn Gremminger. 20:04 What does Pharma need to do to showcase their value when PBMs are often “locked in” at the moment? 23:11 Why Brian is celebrating companies that put their prices in their press releases. 32:31 Why does Pharma have an obligation to explain their value? 33:16 EP426 with Nina Lathia, RPh, MSc, PhD. 33:39 Why is it important for Pharma to keep an eye on hospital monopoly behavior? 35:55 EP370 with Erik Davis and Autumn Yongchu. 37:44 Why Pharma needs to capitalize on alignment.…
In this conversation, Stacey Richter engages with healthcare leader Dr. Beau Raymond from Ochsner Health Network to explore the blueprint for better patient care through enlightened leadership, data-driven strategies, and localized health initiatives. The discussion covers shifting from 'sick care' to preventative healthcare, integrating technology and data tools like glucometers for health coaching, and addressing health equity through accurate data and regional strategies. To Read the Show Notes with Mentioned Links and a Full Transcript, Visit the Episode Page . If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe. The conversation explains the importance of stakeholder engagement, setting clear goals, financial incentives aligned with patient care, and continuous improvement through feedback loops. Practical steps such as weekly huddles for primary care teams and the role of digital health in managing chronic conditions like diabetes and hypertension are also highlighted to improve healthcare outcomes and operational excellence. A rate critical to attain better care for patients, I’m gonna say, is enlightened leadership—maybe dyad leadership—at a clinical organization. I am saying this because without enlightened leaders, it’d be harder to build from the blueprint that Beau Raymond, MD, talks about today on the show. 10:44 Why is it important to be flexible while keeping your goals in sight? 11:48 Dr. Eboni Price-Haywood’s article on disparities in COVID. 12:29 How is equity a data point to achieving overall care improvement? 15:01 “If you can’t measure it … accurately, you’re not going to be able to do anything differently.” 20:52 What strategies have been successful in using data to improve healthcare outcomes? 23:17 Why did Ochsner Health avoid looking at the individual physician standpoint in regard to an equity standpoint? 30:40 Why engaging patients in their healthcare actually improved patient visits and did not necessarily reduce patient visits. 34:49 “It’s really about engaging with the patient.”…
1 EP454: How the Particle v Epic Lawsuit Impacts Plan Sponsors and Public Health Trying to Get Data, With Brendan Keeler 34:54
In this episode, host Stacey Richter and guest Brendan Keeler dive deep into the significant legal clash between Epic and Particle over electronic health record (EHR) data access and market competition. To Read the Show Notes with Mentioned Links and a Full Transcript, Visit the Episode Page . This episode examines the broader repercussions on healthcare data exchange, including antitrust concerns, data liquidity, and the ethical considerations around secondary use of treatment data. The discussion brings to light how the outcome of such lawsuits could influence data transparency, interoperability, and the rules governing data sharing among plan sponsors, employers, and healthcare providers. Notable points include the shift to a judicial era impacting health tech companies and the potential for regulatory and judicial actions to improve data access and efficiency within healthcare networks. The episode emphasizes the critical need for clear pathways, accountability, and structured regulations to enhance patient care and reduce fraud in the healthcare data ecosystem. Consider Signing Up For Our Free Weekly Newsletter . 07:21 Who can gain access to EHR data? 10:31 Are there limits to how EHR data can be used secondarily? 11:36 Can EHR data be shared secondarily? 15:47 Part one and part two of Brendan’s comprehensive account of the Epic/Particle dustup. 15:57 What was the dispute that started Epic v Particle? 18:21 What are the two viewpoints in this dispute with Epic’s actions? 26:16 What progress has been seen since this lawsuit began? 28:00 Who else will be impacted by the likely rule cementing from this lawsuit?…
1 EP453: Running a TPA (Third-Party Administrator) RFP Process That Is Less of a Wild West Fiduciary Shootout, With Claire Brockbank 37:00
In this episode, host Stacey Richter delves into the complexities of the Third Party Administrator (TPA) Request for Proposal (RFP) process with guest Claire Brockbank from 32BJUnion. The discussion highlights the critical role of contracts in managing health plans effectively and the potential pitfalls of accepting contracts crafted by TPAs without thorough review. Drawing from Claire's experience, they explore tactics like starting with your own contract paper in RFP processes to gain negotiation leverage, and the benefits of employer coalitions in navigating health care complexities. To Read the full article which includes mentioned links visit the episode page . If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to become a member of the Relentless Tribe. Real-world examples underscore the financial impacts of poorly negotiated contracts and highlight successful strategies for health plan sponsors to optimize costs and services. The episode aims to empower employers with tools and insights to negotiate effectively and ensure their health plan contracts align with their strategic goals, ultimately paving the way for better population health management and cost-effective care delivery. As but one example—and Cora Opshal spoke about this last week and Claire talked about this today—it’s about how allowing upside-down payments, for example, that are in a lot of ASO contracts, this allowing of upside-down payments. I mean, it turns out that 32BJ spent around $10 million paying more than the bill was for one year. If somebody signs that contract as handed to them by the carrier, then the plan is now contractually obligating themselves to pay more than the price the clinical practice was charging. So, doc sends bill for $100, and the carrier pays that practice $200 on behalf of the plan sponsor. So now the plan sponsor is paying $200 for a $100 bill. Is this conflict of interest? Is it imprudent? Is it not reasonable? Said another way, is that a bit of a fiduciary breach on the plan sponsor? So it's understandable why the team at 32BJ pushed back and pushed back hard. We all can see why the leading edge of plan sponsors and more and more C-suites are hotfooting it into conference rooms to plan their RFP process and doing it in the way that Claire Brockbank talks about today. For an open-source contract and some other free tools , please do head over to the 32BJ Insights Web site . 05:36 How does the initial contract writing affect how events in your healthcare plan will go? 06:56 What happens if a plan sponsor or employer doesn’t do the contracting right? 10:42 How much could be saved by doing contracting right? 11:01 EP433 with Justin Leader. 12:22 How do you start an RFP process with your own contract? 14:06 What Claire Brockbank recommends doing to do a TPA RFP process in a way that’s best for you. 19:46 What factors do carriers need to get an ASO or TPA to respond to using your contract? 21:11 Open-source contract available from 32BJ. 21:57 Why it’s important to really probe brokers, despite loyalty to your broker/consultant. 24:30 Who are the reliable agents and experts when carriers are looking to start this process? 26:24 EP428 with Julie Selesnick. 27:56 What’s the silver lining to this effort? 29:17 Why is it important to make it clear why you’re doing what you’re doing for your lawyers and any other support team you need? 31:39 What does “good” look like in this process? 34:15 Why is it important to continue to hold your ASO accountable?…
In this episode I interview Cora Opsahl from the 32BJ Health Fund to examine the intricate dynamics between fiduciary duties and the entrenched status quo in healthcare. The discussion focuses on the challenges employers face when dealing with anti-competitive contracts and their responsibility to ensure plan expenses are reasonable. Cora Opsahl, my guest today, is the director of the 32BJ Health Fund, serving over 200,000 folks. Their ability to kick NewYork-Presbyterian, a big, consolidated, very expensive hospital, out of their network in 2018 enabled them to offer maternity benefits for $40 in total out-of-pocket for members. And also, employees got their biggest raise ever; employers got a premium holiday and a 3% rate increase for a bunch of years after that; and yeah … this is where we start the conversation today. Furthermore, you will find links to a template health savings calculator for plan sponsors and also a template contract (again for plan sponsors) that 32BJ has made available, in our show notes . To Read the Full Show Notes with the Mentioned Links Visit the Episode Page. If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter to be a member of the Relentless Tribe. 06:16 Why is it imperative for employers to do something differently when it comes to being plan sponsors? 09:22 How analyzing claims data allowed 32BJ Health Fund to reshape their benefit design. 12:09 What anticompetitive rights did 32BJ run into that limited 32BJ Health Fund from managing their benefit design? 14:12 How do these anticompetitive rights have quality implications as well as cost implications? 18:43 How did 32BJ Health Fund remove NewYork-Presbyterian from their network, and how much did it save 32BJ Health Fund per year? 19:46 What did the healthcare savings allow the unions and employers to do? 20:46 Study by Zack Cooper, PhD. 21:26 Why rising healthcare costs has pushed 32BJ Health Fund to move beyond benefit design to manage healthcare spend. 24:15 Why 32BJ Health Fund wants to control the contracting process. 26:00 EP419 with Andreas Mang. 27:18 What are 32BJ Health Fund’s four non-negotiables? 33:17 Wall Street Journal article on health insurance contract. 35:30 Upcoming episode with Claire Brockbank. 36:14 What is the challenge that exists in our current healthcare environment? 37:43 Cora’s advice on how to get high-quality healthcare at an affordable price.…
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