Episode 269 – Unstoppable Social Media Expert and Model with Lindsey Brown

Unstoppable Mindset

What a combination eh? Well, true. Lindsey Brown is the Senior Social Media Manager for NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) and she also models from time to time. Lindsey was born in the UK to a German mother and a costa Rican father. When she was born her father was serving in the U.S. military based in the UK. As Lindsey explains she now has both German and U.S. citizenships. Lindsey will tell us about wanting to undertake a fashion career and so after college where she obtained a Bachelor’s degree in business, she began to seek a modeling career. She got her wish, but eventually realized that her life calling would take her in different directions. Eventually in 2019 she joined NAMI as its senior Social Media manager. However, she did not totally drop modeling. Who knows, you might see her picture somewhere. We talk a great deal about various aspects of mental health. Lindsey talks freely about her own mental health issues including burnout. About the Guest: I embody the essence of a multi-hyphenate, navigating the realms of a "slash culture." Born in the UK to German and Costa Rican parents, I hold citizenship in Germany and the US, setting the stage for my diverse journey. My passions, evolving into career paths, sprouted early. A love for travel, fashion, and mental well-being, my personal "peace," became integral to my identity. At 21, my foray into the fashion world began when I signed with my first modeling agency in New York. From runway to print, e-commerce to fitting, I collaborated with renowned outlets and brands like Essence, Marie Claire, Ashley Stewart, Soapbox, and DevaCurl. Adapting to industry shifts, I transitioned to become a fashion buyer in menswear and footwear, bridging the creative and business facets. To refine my skills, I pursued an MBA while concurrently juggling my roles as a buyer and a model. Today, my titles encompass Model, Senior Social Media Manager for NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), and Freelance Brand Consultant. A dedicated community builder, my role at NAMI enables me to establish safe and positive online communities for individuals navigating mental health. Additionally, I collaborate with social media platforms to enhance safety and user experience. My journey is a testament to the harmonious blend of diverse passions and impactful work. Ways to connect with Lindsey: · Social Media Links o Personal accounts § Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lindseygene_/ § LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindseygbrown/ o NAMI § Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/namicommunicate/ § X - https://twitter.com/NAMICommunicate § Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/NAMI § LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/nami § TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@nami?lang=en § YouTube - @NAMICommunicate § Threads - https://www.threads.net/@namicommunicate · Website – nami.org About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Today we get to talk to Lindsey Brown. Who's Lindsey Brown? Boy? Are you gonna find out by the time this episode is over? It's interesting. Lindsey describes herself as the essence of a multi hyphenate, which I love, and we'll have to really talk about that. And she exists in and embodies a slash culture, another thing that we need to talk about, and so many other things. So I think we're going to have lots of fun and lots of questions. And Lindsey, I know, has a lot to talk with us about. She's going to talk to us also about NAMI, and we'll get to that as well. But for now, let's start with Lindsay. I really want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and thank you very much for being here. Lindsey Brown ** 02:10 Thank you for having me. I'm excited well, Michael Hingson ** 02:14 and I am as well. It's been fun getting to know you a little bit and reading information about you and so on. So here we are. Well, let's start with the real early Lindsay. Why don't you tell us about Lindsay growing up and some of that stuff. Lindsey Brown ** 02:28 Oh, that I have some people say little Lindsay, um, I take it. I'll take it back to to the beginning, right? Um, so a long Michael Hingson ** 02:36 time ago in a galaxy far, far away, alright, Lindsey Brown ** 02:39 put a little, a little age on me. My mom is from Germany. My dad is from Costa Rica. He became a citizen and came over with his family and lived in New York, joined the Air Force. They got together, and I was born in the UK. But Michael Hingson ** 02:56 were you on a military base or something because you don't have UK citizenship? You indicate, Lindsey Brown ** 03:01 no, I have German citizenship, German music, German and Michael Hingson ** 03:05 American. But you were born in England, but don't have UK citizenship? Lindsey Brown ** 03:09 No, I, from what I gathered from my parents before it was at one point, everybody was trying to, like, immigrate into the UK. And so therefore it was kind of like, you can't just have a child here and then become a citizen. I do have a right to be a citizen of Germany, so I've always wanted to hold on to that heritage. Well, yeah, we didn't live, actually, on base. That was one of my parents saying they never wanted us to live on base. So I actually, when I was younger, I understood that my dad worked for the Air Force. I had no context that that was part of the US and the US government and the military. I was like, Oh, he does this. He works on planes, and he leaves, he goes away for a bit, and then he comes back. Michael Hingson ** 03:55 Yeah, go ahead. Lindsey Brown ** 03:57 So then we came over to the states. We ended up settling in Virginia. I went to school in at Great Bridge. I went all the way into high school, and then I went to college at ODU. I always said I did. I created their online version. Originally, I said, I told my parents, I'm going to be a pharmacist. So I started doing my undergrad, became a pharmacist tech, started working at Rite Aid, and then I realized it just wasn't my passion. And so then I came to them, and I said, You know what? I think I want to work in fashion. That's my calling. And I want to, I want to model. And as any immigrant parents, they looked at me and said, you're going to do what? And my dad was like, Okay, sure. My mom said you will finish school. And I got signed to a local modeling agency in Virginia. And then about a year later, I had this grand idea to get signed. I said, if I'm going to model, I'm going to I'm going to get signed by like, a big agency. So I could really do this. And so I put in a piece of paper, and I wrote down all the modeling agencies that had a plus size board in the US. And I told my mom, if everybody tells me now, I will let it go. So we go to New York. I go to Wilhelmina. That was the first one I went to. They immediately told me, No. I made my mom walk down Seventh Avenue. She'll never let me forget it, because I thought Seventh Avenue was really short. It is not I want to say we probably worked walk for a good 20 minutes, and I went to msa models, and I had met one of the casting agents at an event in Orlando. And I will admit I lied, and I I said, I have an appointment with Anthony. And they said, Oh, okay. And I met with Anthony, and he said, Oh, I remember you and I got signed that day. Michael Hingson ** 06:05 Well, that didn't totally please your mom, or did it? Lindsey Brown ** 06:11 My mom has always been supportive, like she's kind of like, if you want to do it, have a plan and I'll support you. So the agreement was, you're going to go to school still. And a lot of my teachers are great. I would explain to them in the beginning of, you know, school or class, I would say, you know, hey, I have a full time job. I work out of New York. I work as a model. And most of them said, Oh, that's really cool. You know, will work with you on your assignments, or sometimes I would have to take a test early, and then I think I only had one professor ever say to me, like, you do what? I don't think he believed me. So I said, you know, I can forward you every email I get from my agent. Because who, who we if I was just going to skip school, I that wouldn't be my lie, like I could make up something a lot easier than I'm going to New York and I'm going to a casting or I'm shooting, and within two weeks, he said, Okay, you were telling the truth on that. Like I I've never heard of that before. Um, and I modeled all the finished school, and I modeled until full time, until, I want to say I was 25 ish, and then wanted to one. It was the industry always changes, right? So you were kind of looked at as a mannequin. Necessarily. You're you don't have kind of autonomy of your career. What if you a size 10 is in, like, kind of in, in, right? Then that's what you're doing. If you're a size 12, you're kind of morphing yourself, trying to be a part of this industry. And I realized at one point it I may not have a full time career of this. Maybe I should do something more of like a nine to five. So I moved back with my mom in Fredericksburg from Brooklyn. That was a little bit of, you know, life awakening, as I call it, but I was able to get a job working at a clothing store, and was a manager there. I always say, you know, you start somewhere, but you know you have transferable skills. So I was around 2526 managing like a team of like 10, and then I knew I wanted more, so I started working at the Marine Corps Community Services as a buyer in menswear. So for people who've never been on a military base, there's something I call like a big mall. So if you put, like a Macy's together, a Home Depot, a Best Buy that's worked on every military base around the world, and I worked for the Marine Corps, so and I bought men's clothing, and then I switched over to shoes. So I bought, I always tell people it's the most fashionable job you can have in the military. I bought Steve Madden, Dolce Vita, like fun, trendy shoes. So I'm telling people like the the new trend this, you know, this year's plaid has nothing to do with military boots or anything. Michael Hingson ** 09:09 And so go ahead. No, go ahead. Lindsey Brown ** 09:14 And then, of course, I think that's where I started my as I call it, splash culture, right? Because I was still doing modeling jobs. So some people would know me as the model, some people would know me as a buyer. And I really got interested at the intersection of marketing and social media, and so I started going back to school, getting my MBA in international marketing. Michael Hingson ** 09:38 What did you actually get your BA in? What did that end up being? Lindsey Brown ** 09:41 Business Administration, okay, minor in fashion, because my parents weren't into the idea of me doing a whole degree in fashion. Michael Hingson ** 09:52 Little compromise never hurt, right? It's Lindsey Brown ** 09:54 a compromise, right? So, like, I was like, you know, what a minor, A minor, we can do that. Um. And and so then I started, I realized that, again, my passion wasn't being a buyer, a buyer in fashion. It sounds like you're going to be at these fashion shows and it's going to be fun, and it's not saying it's not fun, but it's more so you're doing you're in Excel sheets all day long. And I was more interested in the marketing of you know how to get people to buy these products, not just purchasing the product, right? So I went to school, started working and getting my MBA, and then knew that if I want to switch over to marketing, well, who would hire me? Because I don't have a background in marketing at all. So that was when the influencer on Instagram kind of career was kind of taking off. So I said, Well, if I can create my own social media following, then at least maybe I can work with other brands, and I could use that to build a portfolio so I can get, as I call it, quote, unquote, a proper nine to five. So that actually worked. I would never call myself a full time influencer, but I was able to work with different brands and then build out a portfolio. And when I got to graduate from my MBA, it was December of 2019, and I was super excited, because then I got a job for a travel company, and I love to travel, so I just thought to my this is perfect. I have my MBA. At that point, I was living in Woodbridge, Virginia, and I knew that I wanted to live in DC for a while before I found another place to live. And then the pandemic happened, and having a travel job in the pandemic is not great, like wrong move, Michael Hingson ** 11:53 but you didn't know it at the time. Had no Lindsey Brown ** 11:56 idea. And so the company, I was there for maybe five months before obviously they had to do layoffs, and I worked freelance for a while of that. And then I always say the universe brings you where you need to be. And that's when I started working at Nami as their social media manager. And Nami is the national line to mental illness, so it is the largest nonprofit that works to a racial stigma surrounding mental illness and mental health and gives people in their communities actually supporting services. Michael Hingson ** 12:33 Again, not something that you had planned on doing, necessarily at all. Lindsey Brown ** 12:38 No, but I love the idea of community. And little did I know that, necessarily, in in the world, as during the pandemic, a lot of people were dealing with anxiety and depression, and also we talked, you know, we can talk about it now, burnout, yeah, in the mix, 2019, I was burnt out and didn't know it. I was also experiencing anxiety and didn't have the word for it. So I would just say, like, I'm just overwhelmed. So I always say, I came to Nami and I learned a vocabulary, a vocabulary list, right? And I can say, Oh, this is my anxiety peeking out here, connecting with the community. And I can see the beautiful part about my job is that a lot of times, let's say, when I was a buyer, you're not seeing how somebody purchasing a product changes their day. But on the back end of being working as the head of social media, I see people's comments where they're saying, you know, this post saved my my life, or this really helped, you know, my child learn about the depression they're experiencing. It makes the work worthwhile, Michael Hingson ** 13:49 right? So, how so Nami and being well, I was going to say Nami is certainly a whole lot different than what you've done, but at the same time being the social media person that's really getting into more of, in a sense, the marketing that that you already had some familiarity with, Lindsey Brown ** 14:10 right? Exactly? So it's kind of like having a career passion of saying, I I'm good at social media, I'm good at the marketing part, and then finding the intersection of what actually gels with me. And for me, it's really about helping find people, find their community. And what I always used to say is like, I'm trying to just, you know, preserve my peace, which is also kind of like preserving your mental health. So I'm helping people, in my version of it protect their mental health. Learn about mental health. Don't feel scared about actually saying like, Hey, I'm experiencing X, Y and Z. Finding support. The amazing thing about Nami, there's it's federated model, so there's over 600 affiliates nationwide. So if you want to learn about mental health, that you're looking for support. Education family member is there's an affiliate close by, and I'm helping with my passion of marketing, bring people to health and care. Michael Hingson ** 15:10 And for you personally, with the pandemic hitting and so on, what made you realize that you were experiencing burnout, and kind of, how did it manifest itself? Lindsey Brown ** 15:26 For me? I was I always felt like I had to be doing something. I realized I couldn't relax unless somebody around, like, you know how people say, like, Oh, I'm going to Netflix. You chill all day long. I can do that if somebody else was in the room, because we're doing it together. But I didn't know how to relax by myself. But I also felt overwhelmed, and I would want to sleep, and then just feeling almost always, I say like the rabbit hole effect, where, if I have five minutes apiece, then my brain is going like, what about this, what about that, what about this, what about that. But the other part of me says, Are we supposed to be relaxing right now? And I couldn't. And so coming into Nami, I can say that the company overall is really supportive of employees talking about their mental health and, you know, resources. So it helped me finding other people who were experiencing the same thing, but also I'm researching these topics to talk about on social media. So it got me to actually do a lot of the work that I probably wouldn't have done alone. Michael Hingson ** 16:35 So what have you learned from all of that Lindsey Brown ** 16:38 everybody needs a mental health toolkit, and I say it the version of, you know, it can't for me. I can say it helps with if I'm eating right, am I hydrated? Am I getting enough sleep? Working out? I learned funny enough. I learned that I was doing an IG live, or assisting with an IG live, between our chief medical officer, doctor Ken, and one of our ambassadors. And they were talking, and they said, you know, oh, there's, you know, study, if you do, like, 10 minutes of workout a day, you know, it can help with your anxiety. And I was like, huh, that kind of does make sense, because when I work out or go for a walk, I do feel better. Who would know? Who knew that? But I learned that on that IG life, right? Having a vocabulary word for it actually really helped. Instead of saying, I'm feeling overwhelmed, I feel tired. Those are maybe symptoms, but that's actually not what I'm experiencing. I'm experiencing anxiety. So being able to, you know, talk with, you know, I called my community so my friend, family and friends, if they're like, hey, you've seen a little bit off. My anxiety is kind of a little I can say that my anxiety is kind of off today. And then also, for some people, you know, I have gone to therapy before, I feel like maybe, you know, it's always good to have a consistent therapist. But I tell people, you know, there's no harm in going to see a therapist if you need to be on medication for it, but everybody kind of needs to find what works for them to as I call it, keep to protect your peace. Michael Hingson ** 18:11 So does that? Are you suggesting that most people should, in one way or another, have a therapist, or at least they need to be thinking about their mental health. That isn't necessarily a therapist, but they need to be understanding it and studying it. I Lindsey Brown ** 18:27 think everybody should be intrigued and learned about learn about their mental health just like you have your physical health. So you may go to a doctor, or, let's say, if you tripped and you sprained your ankle, right, you would probably go get that checked out, or you would wrap it same thing with your mental health, necessarily. Hey, I feel a little bit off. You know your body intuitively. So if something feels off, and it's not maybe your physical health, or it could be your mental health, maybe you're not getting enough sleep. Maybe it's these different aspects. Maybe you're experiencing trauma for the first time, different things that are happening. It could be your physical or your mental but you need to care about both of them. Michael Hingson ** 19:08 How do we get people to talk more about the idea of mental health? And you know, there's so many aspects of that. I know that a few years ago, when we were talking about in as a society, the whole concept of of end of life and people passing and making arrangements and so on. And there were, and are a number of people who poopoo that, but it is also part of mental health. But in general, how do we get people to talk about and accept that it's okay to talk about mental health? Lindsey Brown ** 19:38 The silver lining of the pandemic was that people started talking about it. It was the first time, collectively, we're all in the house experiencing maybe emotions or feelings that we haven't before. And the world learned like, oh, that's anxiety, that's depression, and let's talk about it. The biggest thing is actually, for people. Hope to get comfortable talking about it. Mm, hmm, there was a culture prior that, you know, oh, that's something we talk about in the house. We keep it with our family. We don't discuss it. And that's not how you get people to care. Is to, you know, hide your secrets and keep you sick, right? So talking about it just how me and you were having a conversation today, and somebody could listen to it and say, like, Oh, I feel comfortable. That's what I've been experiencing too. Where can I get help? Maybe I should have a mental health toolkit. I never thought about that before. Maybe I should check out my local Nami. It's taking away those barriers and actually accepting people, and especially when people are talking about it, not to shame them. Yeah, to actually, you know, lead with empathy and learn more about it. Michael Hingson ** 20:45 And again, talking about it doesn't mean you go up to everybody on the street and you say, I want to talk about mental health, but it is, it is also being a little bit strategic, but still doing it, and having a plan to really address mental health. And it makes perfect sense to do? Mm, Lindsey Brown ** 21:01 hmm, absolutely. I mean, it's not like if you went to the doctor and you got, I don't know, a bad, you know, physical. You're not going to run up to everybody and say, hey, my physical results were horrible today. Like you're not doing that. But you pick and choose who is your community and who you feel safe to talk to about it. Michael Hingson ** 21:19 Yeah. Yeah. And it gets back to your community and and you, you need to develop, I think everyone needs to develop a cadre of some sort of of people who they can talk to. And all too often, we don't. We think it's all us. We're, we're totally independent. We don't need to to have or involve anyone else. And I am really a great fan of something that Gandhi once said, which is interdependence is and ought to be as much the ideal of man as a self sufficiency. You know, we're not always self sufficient by ourselves right Lindsey Brown ** 22:00 No, I totally believe that. I used to feel at one point that I could do everything and I and I can learn from people, but I don't like to ask for help, right? And I learned that doesn't work. I said to my friends, I don't want to be the strong friend anymore. I need help. I need I want support, and I don't want to just reach out when everything is in shambles or I feel like I can't manage it anymore. Sometimes it just helps to talk. I mean, sometimes I call my mom or a friend and I say, like, can I vent? Do you have time? Because y'all see you want to check before you just unload on people. But hey, can I? Can I talk to you about this? Because I am having a day, Michael Hingson ** 22:46 yeah, what if, if there is a specific thing, what really turned your attitude and your idea around to the point where you started to believe in the whole idea of talking and communicating and recognizing that it isn't, you know you you're not. No one does everything, just totally on their own. Lindsey Brown ** 23:06 I can say part of it happened during the pandemic where I went through being laid off, and that was the first time I can say that I was questioning and my, I guess, to say my sources of income kind of dried up, right? Because we're in the pandemic, and we all didn't think we could go outside. I was worried, but then I also felt shame around it. And I was talking to two of my close friends, and they reminded there's no shame in you losing your job. And one of my friends sent me, and I think it was like an Uber Eats, like gift card. Like, she was like, buy yourself a good meal tonight. I love you. And even though it's not like I had money to pay for my dinner, but it was that small act of Yeah, them, letting me know it's okay and not to feel shame. And then that again, just checking in on each other. And I was like, I feel better. I feel like I can do this. And necessarily, I didn't need someone to help me apply for jobs, but maybe needed that community support of like, you got this, Michael Hingson ** 24:11 you got this, and we got you, yeah, and, and that's important, and we we shouldn't shun that and we shouldn't try to throw that away. Well, no, I don't need you to have me. I got me and because it's all about again, community, right? Lindsey Brown ** 24:30 Yeah, for sure. I mean, I always you don't have to do this thing called life alone and where you may feel that something is happening in your life where you can feel shame, or you feel like I am alone, there is probably someone out there who has gone through it or going through it, and they can help you, or they have advice or tips, or, Hey, this worked for me. You should try this. Well, you would never know if you didn't start the conversation right. Or. Michael Hingson ** 24:59 It might be that you end up helping them because you enter into that same conversation, and it may very well help you, but it also helps them exactly. And there's again, nothing wrong with that well, so you you work at Nami. Is that a nine to five job? Nine to five? Yep, there you go, so what do you do between five and night and nine the next day? Lindsey Brown ** 25:26 Well, I still model. So if a good I say, job comes by, I will still model. So I mean, there's been times where somebody says, Isn't that you? And I'm like, I that is me. Because you never know where things will get released, the world we posted. I'm like, yep, that is me. I work with local businesses in the DC area to teach them, actually, about social media marketing. It's the one thing that, if I have this knowledge, and a lot of times a small business, or, you know, a solo entrepreneur, they don't always have time to learn the nuances of social media and marketing and how it can better them. So part of it, of I feel like giving back, is, you know, explaining that to them as well. And also I take on different brand trips necessarily. I just went to curl fest, which is a big festival in New York that happens. I think last year's like 30,000 people there. So that's where I say slash culture. So it is. I don't just consider myself the Social Media Manager of Nami. I do other things as well. I don't think you have to be one thing only. Michael Hingson ** 26:36 So you you have several careers going at the same time. What do you think about that? Because I know there are a lot of people who would say, I can't do more than one at a time, and you clearly love to do several. Lindsey Brown ** 26:53 Yeah, I do, um, I feel like it kind of changes with life, right? So there are times when I take on more freelance opportunities, and there are times when I, you know, cut back on them. I feel like you have to do a work to work well. For you, I don't tell people, Hey, I'm doing this, and you should do it too, right? If you are working a full time job and you're fulfilled by that in life, do that and be happy about it. There's something about saying working your job and going home and doing whatever makes you feel happy, right? So for me, it could be that, hey, I've, I'm working, you know, for NAMI during the day, and, oh, well, I have a photo shoot that I'm going to, you know, go to that night, necessarily, or I might be taking a phone call and meeting with, you know, a local business to talk to them through their social media plan. It's not like I'm consistently every single day from, you know, five to nine, then working on a freelance opportunity, right? Michael Hingson ** 27:48 So it works out well with NAMI and we have the, I assume that sometimes you may have a photo shoot or something that comes up during the day. Lindsey Brown ** 27:56 I think you always have to have your priorities, right? So Nami is my priority. I would never, I mean, it's my full time job, right? So I would never take an opportunity and say, like, well, Nami will be okay, right? That that's not the way you, you know, you run a business, and I look at it that I have to make sure the main position is, you know, fulfilled and done well. And if I can take maybe a sick day or take a personal day and explain, yeah, that was what I was getting at, right? Yeah, there's, there's open communication. You don't just necessarily call in and say, like, Hey guys, I'm out today. I have a photo, right? That's disrespectful, and you're not setting up your team for success. So it's planning it out well and choosing your opportunities that you can lean in on. Michael Hingson ** 28:36 And I'll bet the other part about that is that the NAMI folks are pretty proud of you for all the things that you're accomplishing. Lindsey Brown ** 28:44 I would know. I think they are. I mean, everybody's really been always very supportive. I think the beautiful part about, you know, taking on other freelance marketing clients is what you may learn in another industry will actually maybe work and bring it into the NAMI community to say, you know, hey, we haven't thought about this in marketing. Oh, we should try this on social media, right? So it's kind of taking those transferable skills and bringing them into your different opportunities. Michael Hingson ** 29:09 What would you say to someone else who might want to add another career or explore doing more than one thing in their career path and adding something else to their title. Lindsey Brown ** 29:24 Do it. There is not. Do not wait. You know, it's why not? Why wait in your life to say, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have tried that. Try it now. It doesn't mean maybe that will come out to be something you're getting paid for. Could be a hobby, right? And that you may get paid for it every once in a while. But I would say, take the opportunity. If you have a full time job, make sure that you are still fulfilling your full time job needs. Your bills need to be paid, and you should be respectful of the people that are hiring you to do so. But I would say always take the opportunity you don't know. Or they'll, you know, they'll lead you to, Michael Hingson ** 30:01 yeah, I think you said it best when you said you also do need to recognize and keep your priorities. And if you have a full time job, and you've made that commitment, then, unless there's some reason to change whether that's your full time job or not, then it's a matter of keeping your priorities straight, too exactly, Lindsey Brown ** 30:20 and then also personally, right? You don't want to experience burnout, so you don't want to take on too many opportunities at one time, and that becomes your norm. And then you experience burnout, because your freelance opportunities should be something that also fulfills you. So if every day you're burning yourself out and you're burning you know the families at two ends, well, your mental health and your physical health are a wreck. Then yeah, Michael Hingson ** 30:45 and that gets back to burnout and stress and anxiety. Yes, Lindsey Brown ** 30:49 and that is something I am I try to manage. And there are sometimes when I look at opportunities, no. And no is a great word, and it's fine to have boundaries. Yeah? Michael Hingson ** 31:04 Tell me a little about Nami, exactly what it does, how it works, and so on. Lindsey Brown ** 31:09 Yeah, Nami is, like, I said, it's a federated model. So there are over 600 like affiliates around the country, and it's really a place where I say it's all about community. It's people, where people can get, you know, resources, education, support groups and to help people, one to learn about mental health conditions, learn about mental illness, maybe get help. But it's also for people to meet people who are experiencing the same things they are. It's peer led. So instead of, you know, if you go to a doctor and they say, like, well, this is the five things about depression, you should know that's great. But hey, I have depression and I'm a mom, how do I actually deal with, you know, having a full time job and having, you know, kids? How do I deal with that? Well, you would feel much better if you met another mom who's experiencing the same thing, who could give you advice as well? So you're going to support group, necessarily, it's a beautiful thing that there are so many affiliates, because help is close, it's not far away, and it's free. Michael Hingson ** 32:15 So, so there are support groups, and I assume that happens, there are affiliate meetings, Lindsey Brown ** 32:24 yes, so everybody would have their own schedule and again. So the lining of the pandemic, a lot of things that were only in person now are so online. So a lot of times, affiliates will have these meetings, and necessarily, the programs and the resources also online for people to, you know, have an easier method of, you know, reaching out and getting the help. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 32:45 How do you respond to the people who say, Well, yeah, the pandemic is is over, and we really need to get back to normal and get back to just being in the office, and this hybrid stuff is ridiculous, and too much zoom, weariness and and all that. Lindsey Brown ** 33:04 I say as I mean, I'm not a CEO, but I think it opened the conversation, right? Because what it what is normal? Who set that standard, right? So let's have the conversation, is most of the staff happy to be in the office? Then make the opportunity to be in office is hybrid. Give people options remote. That works too. It also opens up your playing field of necessarily bringing in different types of employee, because you may have someone who could be amazing at this one job, but they're not local. Can they do the job remote? I think it's everybody saying the pandemic is over. Well, one, covid is still a thing. It's not going anywhere. I think we just know how to manage it better. But I think it shook up the world to talk about what is quote, unquote normal. Does it need to be the standard anymore? Michael Hingson ** 33:55 Yeah, well, covid clearly isn't going away, and while we're managing it, at least for the moment, we're not getting any major new version of it or strain that is taking us back to where we were in 2020 and 2021, but it's still here, and it is something that we all should be aware of exactly. Lindsey Brown ** 34:23 So, I mean, I let's have the conversation for people who say, you know, we no one should work remote anymore. Well, that's great. Well, find a position or company that is fully in the office, because there could be another company that says, hey, we're fully remote, and they'll attract, you know, employees that love being fully remote. Michael Hingson ** 34:45 Yeah, there's room for all of it. And my perception, personally is that there is a lot of merit for the hybrid concept. But even then, hybrid is. Something that we each ought to have some some control over. But there is value in being in the office for a lot of people, at least part of the time. But I think people are realizing more and more about this whole idea that working remote, or being able to do things at home, and then also being able to address other issues in your life is a very important thing, but it also does get back to what you talked about before, with priorities. I was talking with someone yesterday on another episode, and he was talking to me about someone who he was working with as a coach who worked remote all the time, and this woman who he was talking with said, you know, I don't have time to do the laundry or anything like that. I got to always do my job, and you're working remote. What do you mean? You don't have the time. We've gotta really work a little bit more. All of us do it. Putting things in perspective, Lindsey Brown ** 36:09 for sure, I there's when the pandemic happened, right? And we were working at home. You do realize, oh, I have necessarily, I can throw this, you know, in the washing machine really quick I can, you know, empty up my dishwasher. The reality of the of the matter is, though, if you're working a nine to five, or even if you're an entrepreneur, I do believe in setting boundaries. So when I'm working my nine to five, I'm working my nine to five, typically I'm not, you know, then also folding my laundry where I'm running a meeting, or, you know, going out to the grocery store in the middle of my workday. Now, if you choose to do it during your lunch, and your team is flexible that way, have at it. For me, I like to I learned that multitasking sometimes leads me to make more mistakes that I'm that I would be like, well, if I was focused on this, I wouldn't have missed that. So I try to, when we're working, we're locked in and we're working, and when you take breaks, or you're on lunch break, then you can do all those extra little things. But it's not a place where, hey, I'm laying in bed and the blankets over my head, and I'm kind of, you know, watching TV and I'm in a meeting at the same time. I can't function that way. Yeah, but I always say for everybody, you have to find what works for you. Michael Hingson ** 37:28 Well, I think that there is a lot of merit to when you're working, you're working, and I think that's probably really true for most people, but we do need to really plan our day, or plan what we're doing. And again, it gets back to priority. I can be in some meetings where I'm not leading the meeting and maybe mostly just a listener, and I can actually stand up and go out and feed a dog if it's at the right time, because my guide dog, Alamo, is pretty insistent on when he wants to eat. But I can do both because I have a wireless headset and I'm not looking at the screen right. And so I can do that and still participate if there's a need to. But I also recognize sort of like, well, when doing a podcast episode like this, the last thing I can do is get up and go do anything else for a variety of reasons. That doesn't work, but the big reason it doesn't work is because it is my job and it is what I'm supposed to do, to focus on doing this and doing it right, and doing it well. Lindsey Brown ** 38:33 Exactly. One thing I noticed too, is that before the pandemic, we used to do phone calls. Do you remember that? Michael Hingson ** 38:41 I've heard of that Lindsey Brown ** 38:44 the phone and now everything has to be a zoom call, and everybody's on camera. And what I love about Nami is that we are accepting of, hey, we can have a meeting, but you don't have to be on camera. And every day is in a camera day, we can turn our cameras off. I started with my team officer to say, Hey, do you want to just do a phone call? We if you can't get through zoom to work, or if it's, I don't, I don't want to be on camera today. I just want to, you know, do a touch base and hang up the phone. Yeah. I was laughing with my mom before, because she loves face time, and I told her one day, I said, you know, after a day of meetings, you know, on Zoom, I actually don't want to be on camera anymore. Can we do a phone call? Michael Hingson ** 39:32 Yeah, you know, and I'm a little different, because I don't, I don't mind being in zoom, whether the camera's on or off, but that's because I'm not really looking at it, but I realize that for some other people, it may very well be an important thing. So I like zoom here you go, because the audio is better than on a phone call. But by the same token, I have no problem with doing things on a phone again for. Me, it's the same headset that I use so I can be on a phone call or a zoom call, and either one is fine with me. So I want to do what is more comfortable for other people, but I do find often that when people talk about let's do a zoom thing, it's as much habit as a need, and there isn't necessarily the need, but it's just the habit that now that's what they do. Lindsey Brown ** 40:25 It's the norm. Yeah, so, I mean, I always have the conversation. I have a conversation with your team, or whomever you know necessarily fits in your personal life. I think it's just talking to people and asking, What do you prefer? Do you have time today? Do you want to do a zoom call date? Do you want to do camera off? Do you want to pick up the phone? There's many ways to, you know, communicate in this world, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 40:47 and it, and it makes perfect sense. We all, we all need to recognize that change is always going to be around us. And the reality is, normal is never going to go back to the way it was after September 11 and and of course, I got out of the towers and so on, and I heard so many people say we got to get back to normal. And it took me a little while to realize what a horrible thing to say, because normal will never be the same again. And as you pointed out, who sets the standard of normal? It's it is going to be a constant change, and that's maybe the only normal there really is. Lindsey Brown ** 41:25 I think that's the beautiful part about life, that things will necessarily change. Because where there could be a group of people saying, well, this normal works for me and it benefits me, right? But there could be another group of people who said, your standard of normal isn't helpful for for me. So it doesn't mean then we say, well, we've been doing that for 50 years. We're going to continue doing it because I don't want to make a change. No, it's then you can come to the table and work out, necessarily, what is working for people right now, and how do we uplift everyone around us? Michael Hingson ** 41:56 I think most people who have that mindset will ultimately accept maybe there is merit for change if you can demonstrate the value of it. So we've always had our meetings in person. We do only work in the office, and so we don't ever do anything remote. And I don't want to change that, but when you really start to talk about things like we've been dealing with here today, mental health and anxiety and so on. And a number of people start to talk about how they feel when they're able to spend part of their time working at home, and what that offers. And if you can show things like it actually makes us more productive. Most people, I think, ultimately, can be convinced to try something different. Lindsey Brown ** 42:50 If you space to be open minded, if you look at it sometimes in, I would say, in the corporate world, right before it was you have to be in the office. And a lot of times you were in the office and you were taking maybe, let's say, five meetings a day. Well, you're not really talking to anybody, communicating only the people you were talking to on the phone. Well, what's the difference if I was in the office with my door closed, or if I was at home on my couch talk, having those same meetings? If, yeah, if you can do the job that you were hired for then everybody should be allowed to have accommodation. Michael Hingson ** 43:25 Well, the other part about being at home and having your meeting on your couch is, what other opportunities does it open for you and again, how does that make you feel when you don't have to drive that hour to work every day, or whatever. One of the things I've read in I think the New York Times a couple of months ago was about how, in reality, while we're moving things faster than we ever did, the fact is, it takes us longer to get things done, like it takes us longer to get to work because the roads are so crowded, or if I'm going to travel somewhere, it takes longer to get to the airport, and all of the efforts of getting through security and so on, all take so much longer that you really have to be at the airport earlier in order just to get Your flight, because everything takes so much longer, and that introduces anxiety and stress. Lindsey Brown ** 44:25 Mm, hmm, for sure, I know a ton of people who are so happy they can work from home just for the fact that they don't have to commute. For me, my commute in the morning to the NAMI headquarter office is it probably about 20 minutes, but coming back into DC, it takes me at least an hour, and that which you know that I we have that option to go into office, we can work from home. And I like having that flexibility, because doing that drive every day would feel overwhelming, Michael Hingson ** 44:57 yeah, if you had to do. That now I remember my father worked at Edwards Air Force Base, which was about 40 miles from where we lived in Palmdale, California, and he drove there every day. But one of the things that he talked about more than once was how he could go out of our driveway, go down to the end of the street, make a left turn and travel 40 miles and never stop once, because it was at the time of the day, there wasn't a lot of traffic, and he would go all the way to the gate at Edwards and never have to stop. And he was comfortable with that. We also both became ham radio operators, and so he had a lot of fun while he was driving, talking to me on the radio and to other people, which is another thing that he enjoyed doing, but he found that it was not overly stressful, or he didn't allow himself to become stressed over it because he could travel and keep moving, and felt good about that. Lindsey Brown ** 46:05 Mm hmm. Not having the traffic is definitely a game changer. I've tried to when I I know that if I'm, let's say, commuting, or I'm driving a long distance, I usually call, you know, either my mom or my dad. I call it my check in hour, or listening to a good podcast. So you're not focusing on the negative of I'm in the car. It's, you know, it's an hour, it's, there's traffic, there's so much going on. But having something that either brings you joy or listening to and talking to somebody or listening to good music, it puts you in a good headspace, Michael Hingson ** 46:43 or also, just plain taking your mind off of things and giving you the opportunity to to rest your brain. It is something that I hear so many people say I don't have time to spend every day thinking about what happened today. I'm I've got to go until I go to sleep, and then just go to sleep. And we don't do a lot, or a lot of people don't do a lot to rest their brain or allow their brain to suggest to them how they might be better or do better or accomplish things because they're too busy trying to control their brain, which has a different thought and a different direction it wants to go. Lindsey Brown ** 47:30 Yeah, I become an advocate of mental health days. You don't need to be sick or too extreme burnout to then take a break. It is fine to schedule a mental health day and not do anything. And like I said before, before, pre pandemic, I didn't believe in that. I had too much going on and I didn't think I could take the time. Now, I can easily say to somebody, you know, oh, I have something going on that day. What are you doing? Nothing. Yeah, and I feel great about doing nothing, nothing. Michael Hingson ** 48:04 I have generally been keeping busy during the week. My wife passed away in November of 2022, so now it's just me, but I've become more of an advocate of for me, and I realize that it is me not doing anything on the weekends, reading books and other things like that, and I get so charged for the for the week ahead, and I also get many ideas and thoughts that I might never have gotten simply because I give me and My brain the chance to recharge and to rest and to work together, to think about what's going to happen next. Lindsey Brown ** 48:46 Yeah, there's part of culture. Remember hustle culture, I'm going to work until I die. That is, I thought about it before, and I said that is a horrible way to live your life. That means you have lived in a state of burnout, and you never got to enjoy anything. Michael Hingson ** 49:04 And you will die, Lindsey Brown ** 49:06 and then, and then you will, you know, take that other section of, you know, the afterlife, but we don't know what that is. So I mean, you have one life, enjoy it, have make time for, you know, your friends and your family. And that's where you asked me about being a multi hyphenate of well, how do you do that? That saying no, not overwhelming yourself. Every opportunity can be a great opportunity, but it's okay to say no to them. Michael Hingson ** 49:33 How do you help teach people, or does Nami help teach people to say no and get out of that old mindset. Yes, Lindsey Brown ** 49:42 the support groups they have are a great place where people who maybe have gone through the same experiences, and that's necessarily, maybe mental health, mental illness, but also, I always say, there's life lessons with with everything. So I mean, I've learned from working at Nami, but then also listening. Your friends and everything. So no, is a full sentence. You don't have to give a person a reason why. You don't have to tell your maybe your employer, hey, I'm taking the day off because I feel overwhelmed and I haven't I'm taking the day. You earn the time off. Take the day, right? Telling your friends and family, no, I can't do that necessarily. Or there are times in you know, I'll have a super long day, and maybe, you know, my dad might call me and I'll text him back to say, Hey, is everything okay? And if he says, Hey, I gotta talk to them, you know, I definitely call him back. But there are times when he says, Hey, I was just checking in, and I can easily say, Hey, I'm just tired from the day. Can I call you tomorrow? Everything's fine on my end, but I'm I'm just mentally done today, and that's okay. We we're all allowed to set boundaries to AKA, protect our peace and our mental health. Michael Hingson ** 50:57 You know, it's not to well, it is sort of related to mental health and so on, but we seem to, in general, have lost a lot of the art of conversation, and so many people won't talk about one thing or another the way, maybe even we used to. How do we get back to being more willing and open just to talk Lindsey Brown ** 51:19 time, taking the time, right? It's the and it's funny, because I work in social media, so everything's really quick, but even then, taking the time, making time to have conversations. If you ask somebody how they're doing, actually stop and listen, right? Because a lot of times you Hey, how you doing, and you really didn't want to hear how they were doing. You just said it, because that's a nice thing to do. Take a moment, right? Because you would want someone to take a moment for you. Michael Hingson ** 51:48 Yeah. Then the fact of the matter is that having lost the art of conversation, and I think there's so many articles and things I've read that say that, I think even more than losing the art of conversation is we've lost the art and the skill of listening. We don't want we don't want to hear. Our boundary is we don't want to hear, well, that's not productive either. Lindsey Brown ** 52:14 Yes. And there is I joke with my parents now, and I tell them, You know what, you were, right? And they and they'll laugh, but those moments where I didn't want to listen, and I know exactly what I'm talking about, because you're from a different generation, and I know better now, I didn't say all that to them, but I thought it, yeah, and then I turn around, Oh, you were right. Hello. And they're like, Yeah, we, we've lived a little longer than you. You should listen, and it's that place where you learn a lot more if you listen. Michael Hingson ** 52:51 Yeah, we, we don't do it nearly enough. Um, I know I've learned from working with eight guide dogs. And when you work with a guide dog, the dog's job is to make sure that I walk safely. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there. But it's fascinating working with a dog and developing a true, real teaming relationship, because we each have a job to do in the relationship, and the jobs go better when we respect each other's jobs, and especially from my perspective as the team leader, when I listen to my colleague on the team and dogs do communicate. They may not communicate the same way we do, but my job is to learn how they communicate and learn to understand what they want and what they're saying, and recognize that they've not only got feelings too, but it's amazing the information that they can and do in part. And so for me, having that kind of a relationship has become extremely important, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Lindsey Brown ** 54:04 You know, it's funny, I have a fiance, and ever since we met, I said, I want to get a dog, and I'm still waiting on that note where you can get a dog. Michael Hingson ** 54:15 Is your fiance sort of not as prone to want to do that or what Lindsey Brown ** 54:19 he is team. We can get a dog when we have a child that can walk, the dog's going to be a while. Michael Hingson ** 54:30 Well, the issue, again, is having a dog is is all about really building a relationship. And again, it's a team relationship. And I don't know that I would suggest waiting until you have a child who can walk the dog, because it isn't going to work as well if you haven't really learned to communicate with the dog first, because you have to learn that whoever you are before you can teach a child how to do it, then that's the point. Is. It's. If you're just talking about walking the dog, if you're going to truly have a relationship with a dog, it's a whole lot different than that, because it is every bit as much a teaming relationship, every bit as much a mutually rewarding relationship, to have a dog if you do it right as it is to have a fiance or a child or both, and most people don't really recognize that, oh, the dog will love the dog, and the dog loves us, and we'll walk the dog. There's a whole lot more to it, if you want to really do it, right? Lindsey Brown ** 55:36 Yeah, and it's all about relationships, right? So kind of how you were talking about earlier, how do we stop and communicate? How do we stop and listen? It's a place that I've gotten to where maybe it was a light bulb, right, where I was like, Oh, this is all about relationship and how people feel and how they feel when they're actually talking to me and communicating. And that's at, you know, extra work in your home life, necessarily, and to be open to having those conversations and not just trying to have everything go your way. But listen to the why behind, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 56:13 yeah. And the why behind is like with a dog, just as much. Why? What is the dog saying and why? Because they're they're talking all the time, and it doesn't necessarily mean with a bark, right? But, but they're talking, so we need to have a conversation with your fiance. That's all. Lindsey Brown ** 56:34 We'll set up another meeting. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 56:36 well, we should do that. So do you think that in the world, we're getting better, really, at talking about mental health. Or have we, have we made significant progress, or a little bit of progress? I think we have, Lindsey Brown ** 56:52 um, even in my friend group, necessarily, or even with my dad, necessarily, he said to me before, and my dad is culturally Costa Ricans, you know, aren't going to talk about their feelings and necessarily, you know what traumas maybe they had. And he said to me for he said, Well, maybe I experienced a little bit of anxiety, and in my mind, I said, Well, you think, but it's that place when you hear somebody else talking about it, it opens you up to think about, huh? Not a me too situation, right? But it's maybe I, maybe I am experiencing that, or because one in five people experiencing mental health condition, right? So if it's not you, it's somebody that you know, and it's not saying, then you have to raise your hand and say, Well, I I experienced depression, or I have anxiety, me too. No, but it's a place that you know how to support that person. You know how to listen to maybe what their plight is, and your friend who may experience depression, and you're like, I don't know how to help them. I just see them in bed being sick, right? But no, actually, hey, well, how can I actually be a support system to you? Obviously, I may not understand, but I can give you empathy. I can be here for you. I think the pandemic definitely changed that conversation, and more people are open to it. And Michael Hingson ** 58:10 you think that's going to continue? I Lindsey Brown ** 58:14 do think it's going to continue. It's something that you can't turn off, necessarily. It's the same place where you talk about the intersection of culture and identity in America, necessarily, the conversation is there. It's not going to be turned off. We're going to continue to have the conversation, and we're going to change people's lives that way by having these conversations. Got it. Michael Hingson ** 58:36 How do you protect or how does one protect their mental health? Lindsey Brown ** 58:42 I mean, I go back to having your mental health toolkit, your self care toolkit, of what makes you feel good inside, what brings you back to peace, what makes you feel good, and you know in yourself when you're like, uh, if I do my five minute meditation in the morning, or I have my cup of coffee in the morning or at night I do my skincare routine. What brings you back to peace is a big thing. Saying no, no, respectfully, like I wouldn't necessarily send an email to your boss and no, but necessarily having those conversations and maybe explaining your boundaries and maybe, you know, creating a better work life balance is definitely a place where people can start. It is knowing when you are feeling off, being in tune with your body and making the changes that can actually help you overall. Michael Hingson ** 59:35 Well, here's the question for Miss social media model. How's that for a start, huh? How do you protect your mental health online? That's getting to, of course, to be a really big thing. I mean, I've, I've, we've, we've seen Congressional investigations where they bring this, the big tech people in, or the social media people in, and. And all that. But ultimately, what can we do to protect our own mental health and the mental health of those around us online? Because we're relying so much online nowadays, which I'm not sure is always as wise as it ought to be, but that's okay. Lindsey Brown ** 1:00:18 Definitely, for me, it was learning that social media is a tool, right? So a lot of times, you feel that you're connected to social media, and it is something that you just have to be a part of. It's a tool. So necessarily following accounts that you like, what makes you feel good? You don't have to follow anyone on social media that you don't want to follow. Taking time away from social media. I know that's, you know, different for someone who's a social media manager, but if I'm spending all day on social media and I I'm overwhelmed, well, the last thing I need to do when I get off work is then to open up social media and, as I call it, Doom, scrolling or inactively participating, right? Because then I'm not even paying attention to maybe the curated post or the things that my friends are sharing. I'm just scrolling because I wanted something to do. Well, how about then putting the phone down, either finding a book, doing something that is off the phone. So when you are on social media, actively engaging, finding things that necessarily, for me, I really like to go experience things in DC, so like, find the things that I want to do in the city that I'm in, to go do things outside of my phone. Yeah, use the phone to find things to do and then go do those things. Look at how long you're online, right? Because that's a tool on most platforms. And you'd be shocked how long you spend time online, like on social media, and you're like, there's been a way I was on here for, you know, five hours. Yeah you were, yeah you were, yeah you were, and you don't realize it, because sometimes I realize with myself, you know, when you're watching, like maybe a show, or you're listening to a podcast or something, and there's that, that ad break, and then you pick for me, I would pick up my phone and I would be scrolling the ad is a minute long. Why can't I just sit there for a minute with my own thoughts? Yeah, why do I have to pick up my phone? And I realized I was doing that. So sometimes I will put my phone out of reach because I don't need my phone right then, I'm not even really looking at anything. I'm just doing it because it's a habit. Or stand up and go get a cookie. Yeah? Like, go, go do something. Like my mommy, she's they're like, Well, you can go do a jumping jack. And I'm like, Mom, I'm not going to get up and do a jumping jack now, but I guess you could, I could, and I got, she's right. I don't need to just be scrolling on my phone. Still right, definitely being noticeable of like our habits, and noticing how you feel when you are on social media. It's totally fine to take a break delete your accounts. It is fine to then unfollow people. And there's also, the cool thing is that on a lot of the platforms, either you can either hide people. So let's say you have a friend, right? And your friend is, I don't know, experiencing something that doesn't make you feel great, even though it's great in their life, you don't really want to unfollow them, because then they're like, no, what are you doing? But you can hide their stuff and they have no idea, but it makes you feel better. And then you can actually talk with them about anything else but that one thing they're going through, right? Yeah. You can actually hide keywords. So if you are triggered by certain things, you can go in your settings and turn that off so you're not seeing those things. There's comments don't come in, or those words don't come in through your comments. I know on Tiktok, you can refresh your for you page. So sometimes, if you're going, let's say I, I'll call it down a dark hole, down a topic, and you realize, you know what, it's probably not great for me to actually still be going down this rabbit hole. A lot of times, the algorithm will think, oh, but you like this content because you spent five hours that day diving into the content. So we're going to keep giving it to you. Yeah, great thing on Tiktok is that then you can refresh it so it resets the whole out your algorithm. The algorithm Never knew that you actually like that topic. There Michael Hingson ** 1:04:20 you go. Now, if you living in DC really want an adventure the day before Thanksgiving, Wednesday night, go down to Dupont Circle, and at four in the afternoon, leave Dupont Circle and travel to Baltimore, Maryland and see how long it takes you. I did that I had to do. I was went and visited some friends, and I was working at the time in an office in Dupont Circle, and it took three hours, including a long time on the beltway, and there were no accidents. It's just that it was the day before Thanksgiving. What an adventure. Yes, but I was with someone, and we had a chance to talk. But if you really want an adventure, it reminded me so much of Los Angeles traffic. But you know, it's pretty cool. Lindsey Brown ** 1:05:10 Yeah, how is mental health after that? Right? Michael Hingson ** 1:05:13 I wasn't driving. I was fine. Oh, you were great. Then I was well, actually, my friend Denise, who was driving me, wasn't really bad either. We expected it, so it gave us a chance to talk and catch up. Her husband was at at their house waiting for us, and I was going to their house for dinner and staying the night and so on. So it really wasn't bad. We expected the traffic, and we knew what we were going to get, so we we did fine. Lindsey Brown ** 1:05:42 That's actually a good way to think about it, because if you know what's going coming ahead, yeah, then you, you're already in that mindset of, oh, it's probably going to, it's, it's the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. We're going to be in this car for a long time. Yeah. Oh, what the heck we'll live that is true. Well, Michael Hingson ** 1:05:59 if people want to reach out to you and learn more about some of this, or learn more about Nami and so on, how do we do that? Definitely. Lindsey Brown ** 1:06:08 You can go to nami.org where all our resources are. There, you can find a local affiliate, N, A M, I n, a n, a m, i.org right? And you can find all our social media handlers. There. You can find me on Instagram and LinkedIn, under Lindsay Gene, G, E, N, E, and yeah, if you ever have a question about social media marketing, if you want to talk about your mental health, necessarily, you're looking for resources, feel free to reach out. Michael Hingson ** 1:06:39 Well, there you go. And I hope people will reach out and continue the conversation that we got to start today. And I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for being with us. Lindsay has certainly given us a lot to think about, and I think that we had a good discussion about a very important topic. So please don't let the discussion die. Keep it going and be with your friends and help your friends and let them help you and improve our mental health all over there's no reason not to do it. We're the only ones who ultimately can deal with our mental health, but we can certainly use all the support and guidance and wisdom we can get from the rest of the world, in the universe, I hope everyone will do it. I'd love to hear from you. If you have any thoughts about today, please feel free to email me at Michael H. [e-mail] that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, you can also go to our podcast page, which is www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and Michael hingson is m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S O n.com/podcast, we didn't even talk with with Lindsay about the fact that I met Lindsay through our, one of our nonprofit manager partners, Sheldon Lewis, because they're they're learning about accessibe, which is really pretty cool. Artificial Intelligence rules, once again, at least to a degree, and the Internet can be a great way to screw up your mental health. And so I'm waiting for somebody to tell us that accessibe helped their mental health, but I'll leave that to you to let us know. Lindsay will do, but I want to thank you all again. Please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to us. We really appreciate it, and please give us your opinions and Lindsay for you and anyone listening. If you have any thoughts about anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. Feel free to email me. Love to hear from you and get your thoughts, and we always are looking to meet new friends. So once again, Lindsay, I just want to thank you for being with us, and thanks for for all your time and the wisdom that you shared with us on unstoppable mindset. Thank 1:08:54 you for having me. **Michael Hingson ** 1:08:59 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. 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