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25 - Peter Liljedahl Embraces the Messy
Manage episode 446124000 series 3506574
Contenido proporcionado por Shannon Schinkel. Todo el contenido del podcast, incluidos episodios, gráficos y descripciones de podcast, lo carga y proporciona directamente Shannon Schinkel o su socio de plataforma de podcast. Si cree que alguien está utilizando su trabajo protegido por derechos de autor sin su permiso, puede seguir el proceso descrito aquí https://es.player.fm/legal.
In this episode, Shannon talks with Dr. Peter Liljedahl, a professor of mathematics education at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada. Peter has authored or coauthored numerous books, book chapters, and journal articles on topics central to the teaching and learning of mathematics, and is most known as the author of the global phenomenon Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics: 14 Practices for Enhancing Learning (Corwin 2020).
***
Find out more about Peter Liljedahl at peterliljedahl.com and buildingthinkingclassrooms.com
***
Contact Shannon Schinkel about the podcast or consulting:
Website: mygrowthmindset.home.blog
Email: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: @dramaqueenbrc
Threads: @dramaqueenbrc
If you are an educator who exclusively uses the British Columbia curriculum join Shannon's group on Facebook, Beyond Report Cards. https://www.facebook.com/share/g/65juRisqcoN4FmTa/
47 episodios
CompartirManage episode 446124000 series 3506574
Contenido proporcionado por Shannon Schinkel. Todo el contenido del podcast, incluidos episodios, gráficos y descripciones de podcast, lo carga y proporciona directamente Shannon Schinkel o su socio de plataforma de podcast. Si cree que alguien está utilizando su trabajo protegido por derechos de autor sin su permiso, puede seguir el proceso descrito aquí https://es.player.fm/legal.
In this episode, Shannon talks with Dr. Peter Liljedahl, a professor of mathematics education at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada. Peter has authored or coauthored numerous books, book chapters, and journal articles on topics central to the teaching and learning of mathematics, and is most known as the author of the global phenomenon Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics: 14 Practices for Enhancing Learning (Corwin 2020).
***
Find out more about Peter Liljedahl at peterliljedahl.com and buildingthinkingclassrooms.com
***
Contact Shannon Schinkel about the podcast or consulting:
Website: mygrowthmindset.home.blog
Email: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: @dramaqueenbrc
Threads: @dramaqueenbrc
If you are an educator who exclusively uses the British Columbia curriculum join Shannon's group on Facebook, Beyond Report Cards. https://www.facebook.com/share/g/65juRisqcoN4FmTa/
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1 Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 6: If You Build It, They Will Grow 14:54
TRANSCRIPT: Opening: Welcome back to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Over the past five episodes, we’ve journeyed through the art and science of building meaningful criteria. We’ve explored backward design, unpacked standards using Bloom’s taxonomy, created task-neutral criteria, refined them with quality language, added “This means that…” to ensure clarity for students and teachers alike, and made them first person so students see themselves in the assessment. Now, in our final episode of this series, we’re looking at what comes next. We’ll explore how your criteria can drive meaningful learning experiences while empowering students to take ownership of their progress…because “If You Build It, They Will Grow!” ________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: We have beautiful criteria. Now what? Criteria aren’t just for you to assess students—they’re for teaching, self-assessment, portfolios, communication and more! But it begins with this criteria. In speaking with educators’ things like retakes and redos, self-assessment, portfolio building and supporting students with disabilities have been difficult to manage. But guess what? The criteria you’ve built can now support you with all of these things! ________________________________________ Let’s Break It Down 1. Make Criteria the Heart of Teaching: Criteria are not just an endpoint—they form the foundation for planning, instruction, and assessment. o Design intentional tasks: Learning tasks should align directly with the skills and understandings outlined in the criteria. This ensures that students engage in activities that build toward proficiency rather than just completing unrelated tasks. o Let go or refabricate old tasks: Move away from activities that no longer serve the criteria. Redesign tasks to focus on developing skills and understandings that align with the criteria, ensuring every task has purpose and relevance. o Repurpose old rubrics and checklists: While these tools may no longer be central to assessment, they can support students in organizing their work and meeting task-specific expectations. However, they should not override the broader purpose of teaching to the criteria. o Emphasize skill-building over task completion: Shift the focus from completing assignments to developing and refining skills over time. 2. Feedback That Moves Learning Forward: Clear criteria simplify feedback, making it specific, actionable, and focused on growth. o Align feedback with criteria: Because the criteria are clear, strengths and areas for improvement often emerge directly from the criteria itself. This clarity ensures that feedback is targeted, meaningful, and easy for students to understand. o Celebrate progress and identify next steps: Feedback should both affirm accomplishments and highlight specific areas for continued growth, helping students focus on actionable steps to improve. o Incorporate feedback into learning: Feedback should not be a one-time event but an ongoing process that supports students as they refine their understanding and skills over time. 3. Support Students with Disabilities and Diverse Needs: Criteria create clear grade-level expectations while providing opportunities to meet students where they are by designing “windows” that guide them toward the criteria. o Illuminate and celebrate every level: Meeting students “where they are” does not mean pushing them to the next level immediately. Instead, it means creating pathways that highlight and celebrate their current level of achievement. o Design windows to the criteria: Windows are more than scaffolding; they provide accessible steps leading up to the criteria, allowing students to see the connections between where they are and where they can go. o Tailor next steps purposefully: Supporting students’ progress could mean helping a pre-level 1 student build foundational skills to reach level 1, assisting a level 3 student to move to level 4, or ensuring a level 4 student maintains their mastery. o Build confidence through recognition: By celebrating every level, students gain the confidence to embrace their learning journey. 4. Empower Students Through Self-Assessment: Clear criteria and “This means that” statements give students the confidence to reflect on their learning in meaningful ways. o Clarity builds confidence: The “This means that” statements provide students with a clear understanding of what the criteria look like in action, helping them accurately reflect on their progress. o Self-assessment supports reflection, not control: Self-assessment doesn’t mean students are in charge of determining their level, but it does allow them to speak confidently about their strengths, areas for improvement, and next steps. o Foster ownership of learning: By guiding students through self-assessment, you help them take an active role in understanding their progress and identifying their goals, without feeling overwhelmed by the responsibility of grading themselves. 5. Celebrate the Learning Process: Criteria should shift the focus from outcomes to the journey of learning, encouraging students to value progress and persistence. o Highlight growth over time: Use criteria to show students how their skills and understandings have developed, emphasizing that learning happens in steps. o Create a culture of achievement: Build a classroom environment where progress is celebrated at every stage, ensuring students feel supported and motivated as they advance through the criteria. 6. Be Culturally Responsive and Triangulate Evidence: Incorporate multiple perspectives and diverse ways of demonstrating learning while ensuring evidence of learning is gathered holistically. o Respect cultural contexts: Recognize that students may approach learning and demonstrate understanding differently depending on their cultural backgrounds. Design criteria that allow for flexibility in how students show what they know. o Gather evidence in multiple ways: Use a variety of sources—observations, conversations, and products—to assess learning. This triangulation ensures a fuller picture of student progress and reduces reliance on a single method or task. o Value all contributions: Include opportunities for students to demonstrate their understanding through oral storytelling, collaborative discussions, visual representations, or other culturally relevant modes of expression. 7. Use Standards as New Categories in Your Electronic or Paper Grade Book: With the shift to criteria-based assessment, standards become the new organizational structure for tracking student progress. o Focus on evidence of learning for each standard: Instead of categorizing performance by task types (like homework, projects, or tests), track how students demonstrate their understanding and skills for each standard. o Leverage professional judgment: Use the mode, most recent evidence, and your professional judgment to determine a student’s overall proficiency level for each standard. o Determine course-level proficiency: These standard-specific proficiency levels become the foundation for determining overall grades or proficiency levels at report card time. This approach shifts the narrative from task completion to meaningful evidence of learning. Closing: You’ve spent time crafting criteria that truly matter. Criteria that illuminate the path forward for your students, celebrate every step of their progress, and demand that we, as educators, rise to the challenge of meeting them where they are. But let me remind you of something critically important: criteria aren’t just tools; they’re a promise. They’re a promise to your students that learning is not about the grade at the top of the paper, the points on a test, or the boxes checked on a rubric. It’s about growth, discovery, and transformation. It’s about building confidence in students who’ve been told they’re “not enough,” while challenging those who’ve always heard they’re “already there.” It’s about making sure every learner sees themselves in your classroom and understands that their success isn’t tied to a one-size-fits-all system—it’s tied to their journey, their persistence, and their unique potential. This isn’t easy work. It’s messy, it’s uncomfortable, and at times, it’s downright exhausting. But this is the work that changes lives. This is the work that creates a legacy far beyond the classroom walls. So, as you close the grade book, pause for a moment. Ask yourself: Did I use these criteria to empower students? Did I create windows for them to see their own brilliance, and ladders for them to climb higher? Did I make learning feel possible, valuable, and worthy for every single student? Because at the end of the day, criteria aren’t just what we use to assess our students—they’re what we use to define who we are as educators. They hold us accountable to a higher standard, to the belief that every student, no matter where they start, deserves to feel seen, celebrated, and capable of reaching heights they never imagined. This is your moment. Own it. Lead with it. And let your criteria do what they were always meant to do: not just measure learning, but transform it. Thank for listening to this Special Proficiency Scale Series. If this series has been meaningful to you, like it and share it with other educators. This is my last episode of the Embrace the Messy Podcast. It has been such a pleasure creating the Messy Minutes Assessment Edition and interviewing people for the Embrace the Messy Podcast. I’ve decide to focus my energy on my Beyond Report Cards Facebook group, teaching, and my work as an assessment lead in my school district. Like Rose said to Jack at the end of Titanic, “I’ll never let go…” Take care everyone. This is Shannon Schinkel signing off and telling you to embrace the messy! *** Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
1 Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 5 - To boldly build criteria where no one has gone before 15:47
TRANSCRIPT: Opening: Welcome back to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Over the past four episodes, we’ve unpacked backward design, explored standards, and crafted criteria that are both task-neutral and detailed. Now, we need To boldly build criteria where no one has gone before. Hyperbole aside, we need to take those to the next level by refining them to be student-centered and accessible. It’s good, but how can we make it great? ________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: 1) Writing criteria in third person—“Students will be able to…” can feel teacher-centric, even when task-neutral and strength-based. True it is our responsibility to assess students and use our professional judgment, but what if we shifted to first-person language? Could this small change help students take a more active role in assessment, build confidence, and foster ownership of their learning? What if we thought about criteria not just as something the teacher uses only but something that invites students into the process, which could help them move from compliance to authentic engagement. What if first person language helps students see the purpose and relevance of their learning. 2) What if we make sure our criteria is accessible, meaningful and clear to not just us but our students– couldn’t that bridge some of the gaps that even the most thoughtfully written criteria leaves? When looking at criteria, students often ask, “What does this mean?” or “I get that you have expectations, but what do I actually need to do?”—questions we can address with clear, actionable language like “This means that…” It translates criteria into steps that guide students toward standards with confidence and clarity. ________________________________________ Let’s revisit our Hiking 101 course and the standard: “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” We’ve already crafted criteria for four levels of proficiency. Now, we’re adding some clarifying “this means that” language. Then we’ll put it all into first-person language. I’m going to work through this slowly so you can follow along. ________________________________________ Level 1: Before we get started, imagine a student at the very beginning of their journey. They’re just starting to figure things out and may feel a little unsure along the way. Previously we had: “Is in the beginning stages of identifying and attempting to apply strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness, and is working towards demonstrating understanding and consistency.” Now answer, what do you mean? – what does attempting and beginning stages look like? How will a student know they are there? This means that the student is figuring out which strategies and tools to use and may need help to adjust them during the hike. The result is that the student can complete the hike but may feel unsure or need to stop and rethink their approach along the way. Change it to first person: “I am in the beginning stages of identifying and attempting to apply strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness, and working towards demonstrating understanding and consistency. This means that I am figuring out which strategies and tools to use, and I may need help to adjust them during the hike. The result is that I can complete the hike, but I may feel unsure or need to stop and rethink my approach along the way.” ________________________________________ Level 2: Next, let’s picture a student who is starting to get the hang of it. They’re making progress but still figuring out how to handle unexpected challenges. Previously we had: “Applies some strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness with limited success, while continuing to work through challenges they are having in understanding and consistency.” Now answer, what do you mean? – what does limited success and working through challenges look like? This means that the student can use some strategies and tools on their own but may still need to make adjustments during the hike. The result is that the student is able to handle some challenges but might not feel fully prepared or confident in every situation. Change it to first person: “I can apply some strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness with limited success, while continuing to work through challenges I am having in understanding and consistency. This means that I can use some strategies and tools on my own, but I may still need to make adjustments during the hike. The result is that I am able to handle some challenges, but I might not feel fully prepared or confident in every situation.” ________________________________________ Level 3: Now think about a student who is feeling confident and capable. They’ve developed the skills to handle most situations and follow through on their plans. Previously we had: “Applies appropriate strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness effectively, demonstrating solid confidence and understanding.” Now answer, what do you mean? – what will this confidence and understanding look like? The student is able to follow through with their plans without feeling unsure or needing help. They complete the hike safely, keep a steady pace that works for them, and make choices that show they care about the environment, like staying on track and leaving no trace. Change it to first person: “I apply appropriate strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness effectively, demonstrating growing confidence and understanding. I notice that I can follow through with my plans without feeling unsure or needing help. I complete the hike safely, keep a steady pace that works for me, and make choices that show I care about the environment, like staying on track and leaving no trace.” ________________________________________ Level 4: Finally, picture a student who has mastered these skills. They are flexible, precise, and can handle anything that comes their way with ease. Previously we had: “Demonstrates expert application of varied strategies and tools with confidence, precision, and flexibility, fully addressing safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” Now answer, what do you mean? – how will a student know they are an expert? The student recognizes that they can manage any situation on the hike with ease. They adjust their strategies seamlessly to fit different conditions, follow through on their plans without second-guessing, and make choices that not only ensure safety and pacing but also go above and beyond to show care for the environment and others. Change it to first person: “I demonstrate expert application of varied strategies and tools with confidence, precision, and flexibility, fully addressing safety, pacing, and environmental awareness. I recognize that I can manage any situation on the hike with ease. I adjust my strategies seamlessly to fit different conditions, follow through on my plans without second-guessing, and make choices that not only ensure safety and pacing but also go above and beyond to show care for the environment and others.” Let’s Break It Down: Creating “this means that” language can feel like a daunting task, especially if you’re new to teaching or trying to refine your criteria for the first time. So, where do you start? How did I create the “this means that”? How did I know what to write? First, begin by grounding yourself in the student experience. Imagine putting yourself in their shoes—yes, those slightly awkward and maybe-too-trendy shoes from elementary or high school. It might feel strange, given how long it’s been since we sat in their desks, but it’s worth the effort. Ask yourself, “How would I know I’ve met the level if I were them?” What would I see in my own work or feel about my progress? What would signal to me that I’ve achieved something? It’s an exercise in time travel, but it helps shift our thinking from what we, as teachers, expect to what students need to recognize about their success. By thinking this way, you can define outcomes in terms of what students might observe or experience to recognize their progress. This makes the language clearer and more actionable, ensuring students can connect their learning to the expectations in a meaningful way. Second, if you’re struggling to create “this means that” language or don’t feel confident in identifying what students need to see, here’s a structured process you can follow using AI tools: 1. Prompt AI with the standard and the criteria for the specific level you already have. Make sure your criteria provides a clear description of what students are expected to do. 2. Explain your goal clearly. Include in your prompt something like: “I need to create ‘this means that’ language to clarify this criteria. ‘This means that’ should bridge the gap between the criteria and what students can notice about their performance. It should define observable outcomes or results students would recognize at each level of proficiency. Avoid simply rephrasing the criteria—focus on what the student would notice to know they are meeting expectations.” Feel free to copy and paste this from the show notes directly into AI. 3. Coach the AI response. Sometimes the initial output rewords the criteria without addressing the student perspective. If this happens, don’t be afraid to tell AI it “got it wrong.” Refine your prompt by giving clear feedback, such as: “Consider what students need to see in their actions or outcomes that shows they’ve achieved this level. Focus on results they can recognize in their own learning.” By guiding the AI with specific instructions, you can steer it toward generating more meaningful output. Remember, the AI is a tool—it improves when you interact with it and provide better direction. 4. Add content pieces as needed. If your criteria involves specific foundational knowledge or context, provide that to the AI. Supplying this background helps the AI refine its responses and ensures the output reflects the learning objectives accurately. 5. Iterate and refine. The process isn’t magic, and it won’t be perfect on the first try. The AI can provide great starting points, but you’ll need to adapt and refine the language to align with your goals. This iterative process ensures the output is useful and actionable for both you and your students. 6. Collaborate with your department or colleagues. Once you’ve developed the “this means that” language, share it with others in your department or teaching team. Ask them to review it and provide feedback: Does it make sense? Is it clear and task-neutral? This extra set of eyes is invaluable for catching areas that might need adjustment and ensuring the language works for different perspectives. Collaboration not only improves the quality of the criteria but also builds your confidence in the process by reinforcing that you’re on the right track. By following these steps, you’re not just relying on the AI to figure it all out—you’re guiding the process to create clear, meaningful language that helps students understand and assess their own progress. Closing: This means that” bridges the gap between criteria and understanding by defining expectations in broader, task-neutral terms. It works alongside the criteria to provide clarity, helping students answer the natural question: “What do you mean?” This additional explanation shows students what success looks like and gives them a model for adding depth and detail to their work. Explicit language like “this means that” makes self-assessment more accurate and meaningful. Clear guidance helps students see where they are, understand why, and identify steps to improve. It also fosters metacognition—the ability to think about their own thinking—which builds independence, problem-solving skills, and adaptability. When students can recognize themselves in the criteria, they’re better equipped to take ownership of their learning and make intentional progress. ________________________________________ Now it’s your turn to embrace the clarity of “This means that…”! Add this language to your criteria to help students connect expectations to actions. Next week, we’ll wrap up the series with Episode 6: “If You Build It, They Will Grow,” where we’ll explore co-constructing criteria and teaching to the standard. *** Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
1 Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 4 - I Feel the Need, the Need for Detailed Criteria! 15:37
TRANSCRIPT: Welcome back to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Over the past three episodes, we’ve been hiking our way through the Hiking 101 standard. We started with backward design, unpacked the standard, and explored how to create task-neutral criteria. Today, we’re going to take those task-neutral criteria a step further by making them detailed and actionable: I Feel the Need, the Need for Detailed Criteria! ________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: In In the last episode, we designed criteria using some quality performance indicators. Here’s a recap. • Level 1: Is beginning to apply strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness. • Level 2: Applies strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness with limited effectiveness. • Level 3: Applies strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness effectively. • Level 4: Demonstrates expert application of strategies and tools with thoughtful precision. Now we need to address what the difference is between "limited effectiveness" and "effectively," or how "thoughtful precision" can feel too subjective. Using words like this can be an important first step—but they’re often geared only toward the teacher who wrote them and can feel ambiguous to others. Words like "adequate" or "proficient" help establish a baseline for understanding, but without further detail, they can leave too much room for interpretation and make it harder to communicate expectations clearly. This is where clear and descriptive criteria come in. They provide measurable outcomes, creating a shared understanding of what performance looks like among educators. When criteria are well-defined, they give teachers a consistent framework for evaluating performance, even for more qualitative aspects. Professional judgment plays a critical role in this process, as it does in all professions, but anchoring it in established criteria ensures that it’s professional and evidence-based, not personal or arbitrary. This balance is essential for fostering fairness and ensuring meaningful assessments that reflect the complexities of learning. So, detailed criteria solve this problem by painting a clear picture of what each level of performance looks like. They give teachers a solid foundation for consistent evaluations and informed decision-making. Here’s the key takeaway: detailed doesn’t mean complicated. Think of detailed criteria as a roadmap—it needs to be clear, concise, and actionable, not overwhelming. With this approach, educators can bridge the gap between subjective language and measurable results, enabling reliable and professional assessments. ________________________________________ Visualize This Scenario: So, we are back to our Hiking 101 course and have already revisited the standard, Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness. Now we need to shift from concise descriptors to detailed descriptions of performance levels. So I am going to go through each of the four levels as I shared them in episode 3 – concise and then how now in episode 4 they can be written with more detail and I’ll also explain the changes made so you can visualize it. Level 1 Concise (Episode 3): Is beginning to apply strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness. Detailed (Episode 4): Is in the beginning stages of identifying and attempting to apply strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness, and is working towards demonstrating understanding and consistency. Changes made: Additional qualifying language has been added. Beginning stages means “identifying and attempting to apply strategies and tools” and the outcome is they are “working towards demonstrating understanding.” Level 2 Concise (Episode 3): Applies strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness with limited effectiveness. Detailed (Episode 4): Applies some strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness with limited success, while continuing to work through challenges they are having in understanding and consistency. Changes made: The word “limited” is still there but it is clarified as “while continuing to work through challenges they are having in understanding and consistency.” Level 3 Concise (Episode 3): Applies strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness effectively. Detailed (Episode 4): Applies appropriate strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness effectively, demonstrating solid confidence and understanding. Changes made: The word “effectively” is there but the addition of “demonstrating solid confidence and understanding” Level 4 Concise (Episode 3): Demonstrates expert application of strategies and tools with thoughtful precision. Detailed (Episode 4): Demonstrates expert application of varied strategies and tools with confidence, precision, and flexibility, fully addressing safety, pacing, and environmental awareness. This final level shows the greatest strength. Changes made: They are expert meaning they exude “confidence, precision, and flexibility, fully addressing safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” Notice how each level builds logically on the previous one and is more effective because it provides greater specificity and observable actions for each level, offering clarity for teachers. It ensures a logical progression of skill development and makes expectations transparent, reducing subjectivity and supporting consistent assessment. ________________________________________ Let’s Break It Down: Let’s zoom in on the process. Here’s how you can add detailed criteria for any standard: 1. Define the Levels: Keep the "quality" words from episode 3 but add in more quality words and specific actions to describe what performance looks like at each level. Think about how you can differentiate between basic and advanced performance. For example, it is okay to begin with saying they are "limited" at the start of the criteria but clearer quality words like “continuing to work through challenges” shows what “limited” means. Avoid vague terms like "good" or "perfect” which sound judgmental and keep it is a positive as possible so each level is a step forward rather than something they have done wrong at each level. 2. Keep it task-neutral – I know I am a broken record but avoid adding in language that is task-specific. For example, if I suggested that a student showed “limited understanding in comprehension because their written explanations for short story questions needed more details,” it suggests that written explanations are the only way to assess comprehension and the short story unit is the only unit the teacher is focussing on for the standard. One of the values of generating task-neutral criteria is to see the potential of the criteria across units. 3. Check for Progression: Each level should represent a clear step forward, showing growth from one to the next. Ask yourself: Does the progression make sense? For instance, moving from "limited application" to "effective application" should reflect increased skill and understanding, not just repeated effort. Ensure that each level builds logically, providing teachers with a clear path for student improvement. ________________________________________ Let’s Recap: To summarize: detailed criteria make success visible by giving teachers a clear roadmap for improvement and ensuring assessments are both fair and meaningful. When done well, they help everyone—students and teachers alike—feel confident in the learning process. ________________________________________ Closing: Now it’s your turn to create detailed criteria! Grab a standard and start breaking it down. Use the Hiking 101 example as inspiration, and don’t forget to include specific, observable actions at each level. Need help? AI tools like ChatGPT can offer examples, suggest phrasing, and help you refine your work. And remember, this is a process. Start small, collaborate, and give yourself time to iterate. See you next Friday for part five in this series…To boldly build criteria where no one has gone before. *** Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
1 Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 3 - I love the smell of task neutral criteria in the morning 11:05
TRANSCRIPT: Welcome back to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Over the last two episodes, we’ve tackled backward design and unpacking standards—all while hiking through Hiking 101. Today, we’re taking the next step: creating task-neutral criteria. It’s time to move beyond task-specific assessments and focus on the skills at the heart of our standards. Using our Hiking 101 standard, we’ll explore how to write criteria that work across different tasks, ensuring assessments measure what really matters: student learning and skill mastery. Ahhh, "I love the smell of task-neutral criteria in the morning." ________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: Most criteria focus too much on specific tasks. Think about it—when you create an assignment, you likely write criteria for that particular assignment: • “Body paragraphs clearly develop the theme from the novel.” • “The birthday cake’s lettering is evenly spaced and legible.” While these may seem clear, they tie assessment to a single task, a thematic essay for a novel and decorating a birthday cake. Once the task is done, so is the learning. Even if students redo or revise their work, the feedback focuses on improving the task, not developing the broader skills the standard demands. Here’s where this becomes a problem: Learning isn’t about just completing tasks. It’s about building skills that students can apply across different situations. To do that, we need task-neutral criteria—criteria that focus on the standard, not the assignment. ________________________________________ Visualize This Scenario: If you haven’t listened to Episode 2 yet, I highly recommend going back—it provides the foundation for everything we’re diving into today. In the last episode, we worked with the Hiking 101 standard, “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” We rephrased it to make it clearer: “Complete a hike safely by using tools, pacing yourself, and being mindful of the environment.” This simplified version aligns with Bloom’s Taxonomy at the application level, focusing on using skills in real-world situations. Now, imagine your instructor gives you the following task: “Plan and complete a hike up Teapot Mountain on a summer afternoon in August. The hike is expected to take approximately 3 hours round-trip, with temperatures ranging from 24-30 degrees Celsius.” The instructor provides a rubric, and here’s what it includes: o “Brought enough water.” o “Used a map or trail markers to navigate the route.” o “Demonstrated pacing by taking breaks during the ascent.” o “Followed Leave No Trace principles to protect the environment.” o “Prepared a detailed journal entry post-hike.” o “Took photos of at least five scenic spots along the trail.” o “Brought snacks to share with the group.” Looking at this rubric, it’s clear that some criteria align directly with the standard, while others are task-specific or completely unrelated. For example, bringing enough water is essential for ensuring safety and pacing—both key elements of the standard. However, criteria like “Took photos of at least five scenic spots” don’t connect to the standard at all. While they might enhance the experience, they don’t assess whether students applied the strategies and tools required by the standard. This highlights why task-neutral criteria are so important. By focusing on the skills outlined in the standard, you can assess students’ learning across multiple tasks—not just one specific hike. ________________________________________ Let’s Break It Down: Here’s first step in how to create task-neutral criteria from the Hiking 101 standard. I am going to use four levels here but you can use anywhere from 2 to 7. I strongly recommend however many levels you use, you are consistent: Start with the Standard: Remember, the goal is to align with: “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” Create performance-focused statements In other words, what do you expect at each level? This step is often a transitional phase in criteria development, where the focus moves: • From defining what the student should do (the standard) • Toward describing how well it should be done (performance quality). To do this you need to use words that will distinguish one level from the next. Words like, foundationally, beginning, minimally, marginally, partially, emerging, signal early stages of learning or partial application. Words like, moderately, developing, sufficiently, adequately, reasonably, acceptably, competently convey satisfactory performance. Words like, strongly, proficiently, effectively, skillfully, thoroughly, clearly, appropriately, convey acceptable or intermediate performance. Words like, advanced, expertly, exceptionally, masterfully, precisely, with excellence, reflect advanced, polished, or exemplary performance. Here's what it might look like for our standard: Level 1: Is beginning to apply strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness. Level 2: Applies strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness with limited effectiveness. Level 3: Applies strategies and tools for safety, pacing, and environmental awareness effectively. Level 4: Demonstrates expert application of strategies and tools with thoughtful precision. Avoid Task-Specific Language even if you have a task in mind. This is hard but it our goal here is to design criteria that can be used over and over again. By making criteria task-neutral, you ensure assessments focus on what students know and can do, promoting skill transfer across different contexts rather than tying success to one specific task. In episode 5, we’ll discuss how to use task-neutral criteria for a specific standard. ________________________________________ Let’s Recap: In this episode, we took the first step in designing task-neutral criteria by adding in performance quality language that distinguishes one level to the next. While not the end goal, it does help us shift the focus from tasks to skills so we can measure what matters most: student learning and growth. ________________________________________ Closing: Now it’s your turn to embrace the messiness of task-neutral criteria. Grab a standard and try writing task-neutral criteria for it using the suggested quality words. Need help? Use AI tools like ChatGPT to brainstorm or refine your language. These tools can provide examples, suggest alternative phrasing, and support criteria development by offering fresh perspectives and ensuring clarity. And remember, this is a process. Start small, give yourself time, and collaborate with others. The transcript for this episode will be available for you to review in the show notes. Don’t forget to listen again if needed—and I’d love to hear from you! Share how your journey is going by commenting on this episode. And while you’re at it, why not like, share, and subscribe so you never miss an episode? See you next Friday for part four in this series: "I feel the need – the need for detailed criteria." *** Have a suggestion for someone Shannon should interview, a question about an episode, or some feedback about the podcast, email Shannon here: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com . Thankyou for listening! Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
1 Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 2 - This is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale 10:17
Link to my Bloom’s Taxonomy https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6fxd9swyym0kzmo0mb0tq/Blooms-taxonomy-2024.pdf?rlkey=9drjow0o7qzjjp6xjrjkxxjxu&st=b0eqotkd&dl=0 TRANSCRIPT: Welcome back to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition episode two in our proficiency scale design series, This is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Last week, we tackled backward design. This week, we’re taking on another mess educators face daily—understanding and breaking down standards. After all, as the title suggests…this is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale.________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: If you’ve ever looked at a standard and felt lost, you’re not alone. Some standards feel like someone took every education buzzword, threw them into a blender, and hit puree. In British Columbia, we have some of the most thoughtful and beautiful standards—but also some of the longest and even confusing (in my opinion). They can leave you wondering: What am I even supposed to teach here? No matter if you are here in BC or elsewhere the common issue is twofold: 1. Standards are often wordy, full of excessive complexity. 2. The verbs within the standard don’t always match the intended learning outcome. Last week, I spoke about the importance of backward design which means we must start with the standard. This week, our job is to unpack these standards—break them down into clear, user-friendly language that makes sense for us, our students, and caregivers. But breaking them down doesn’t mean throwing out the original. It’s about sense-making. Once that happens, you might here yourself say: “Oh, that’s what this means!” And then come back to the original to ensure nothing critical is missed. ________________________________________ Let’s Break It Down: Here’s where Bloom’s Taxonomy comes in (and by the way, other taxonomies also work well here but I’m going to stick with Bloom’s because a, I’m a huge fan of Benjamin Bloom and b, it’s in my wheelhouse). Bloom’s taxonomy is a brilliant tool because it helps us align the verbs in standards with the intended level of thinking. Verbs like create, evaluate, or analyze point to higher-order skills, while verbs like remember or understand focus on foundational knowledge. But—and this is key—the verb at the beginning of a standard isn’t always the intended focus. The full standard matters. For example, in Hiking 101, our imaginary course, imagine that one of the standard’s reads as follows: “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” It’s long, it’s wordy, and it doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. So, let’s unpack it together. ________________________________________ Visualize This Scenario: You’re part of Hiking 101. The instructor gives you this standard, expecting you to “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” Sounds simple, right? But what does apply mean here? Appropriate strategies? Tools – what tools? Environmental awareness? Huh? Take a deep breath. Let’s break down this standard into steps: 1. First…Align it to Bloom’s: According to Bloom’s Taxonomy, apply means using knowledge or skills in a new situation. So, for the hike, you’re not just memorizing trail rules or identifying equipment, you should be able to do it in a new situation. 2. Second… look Beyond the Verb: This is important because it sometimes tells us what the strategy entails. For example, if the standard was Apply appropriate strategies to plan an independent hike, the words plan an independent hike fall more in line with create in Bloom’s taxonomy. Creating is more about inventing and designing. Now in our case, when we examine Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike — it justifies that in this case, the standard is definitively about using knowledge or skills in a new situation. Learn it and do. 3. Three…Define the Words Beyond the Verb: What are these appropriate strategies to plan an independent hike? This will come from the content. The strategies and tools will be the foundation for as the standard suggests, “ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness.” In the content, there is using tools like maps and compasses, demonstrating pacing strategies like adjusting your speed on steep inclines or taking scheduled breaks, and showing environmental awareness like packing out trash or staying on marked trails to protect the ecosystem. So, let’s pause for a minute. We first aligned the standard to Bloom’s by looking at the verb and the words AFTER the verb. It’s application — using it in a new situation. Check! Then, we used the content to help us understand the rest of the standard. So now, let’s Rephrase It: We know the standard now, so let’s make it a little simpler. How about instead of “Apply appropriate strategies and tools to complete a hike, ensuring safety, pacing, and environmental awareness,” we use “Complete a hike safely by using tools, pacing yourself, and being mindful of the environment." This version is clear, action-focused, and still captures the intent of the original standard. Remember -- We are still keeping the original standard for reference. As you build learning experiences or assessments, the original can help ensure all key elements are addressed. ________________________________________ Closing: In closing, now it’s your turn to embrace the messiness of unpacking standards: Grab a standard of your own, align it to Bloom’s, look beyond the verb, define the words beyond the verb, and then rephrase it. Need some help? Use AI tools like ChatGPT to support you with the process. It can help you determine what content best fits the standard and even assist with rephrasing it. And remember, unpacking standards can seem daunting, but it’s doable. Give yourself grace, take time to practice, and collaborate with others if possible. Progress happens one step at a time. The transcript for this episode will be available for you to review in the show notes and this episode is available to listen to again as necessary—and I’d love to hear from you! Share how your journey is going by commenting on this episode. And while you’re at it, why not like, share, and subscribe so you never miss an episode? See you next Friday for part three in this series: "I love the smell of task-neutral criteria in the morning." *** Have a suggestion for someone Shannon should interview, a question about an episode, or some feedback about the podcast, email Shannon here: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com . Thankyou for listening! Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
1 Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale Series Episode 1 - There's no place like backward design 9:04
TRANSCRIPT: Hey everyone, welcome to Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition Episode 1: There’s no place like backward design! I’m your host, Shannon Schinkel, from the Embrace the Messy Podcast. Today, we’re kicking off a new series on Proficiency Scale Design—and where better to start than by embracing the messy reality of Backward Design? It’s time to let go of old habits and embrace a new way of thinking about lesson planning. Trust me—it’s worth it. There’s simply “no place like backward design…no place like back design…” ________________________________________ Here’s the Issue: Many teachers still plan lessons by focusing on content first. They think teaching means covering units, chapters, and textbook sections in a specific order. The more they cover, the better, right? Wrong. This approach is called forward design, where the focus is on moving through material, hoping students learn what they need along the way. Where did this come from? Forward design was historically embraced by educators because it aligned with traditional educational practices. Teachers were used to creating lessons around familiar topics or textbooks, with assessments added afterward. Since early educational models prioritized delivering content, learning was seen primarily as acquiring knowledge through lectures and materials. This made forward design feel straightforward and flexible, allowing teachers to plan engaging activities first and fit assessments around them. Moreover, during the industrial age, schools operated like factories—teaching was the input, and learning was the expected output—reinforcing the step-by-step logic of forward design. With few detailed assessment frameworks available, teachers naturally focused on delivering lessons and evaluating learning afterward, making backward design less practical at the time. But here’s the challenge: If students don’t fully grasp the essential learning targets, what was the point of covering all that material? Checking off topics, assigning quizzes, and grading papers might show progress on the surface, but deeper learning happens when lessons are purposefully designed with clear goals in mind. Forward design emphasizes completion, while meaningful learning requires planning with mastery as the destination. ________________________________________ Let’s Break It Down: Let’s talk about what Backward Design really means. It’s a planning process where you start with the end in mind—the learning goals or standards—and then work backward to decide what activities, lessons, and assessments will help students reach those goals. With backward design, consider these reflective questions: • What skills and knowledge should students have by the end of the course? • How will you know students have learned these skills? • What learning experiences will support their growth? Note that the learning opportunities come last, not first. Content is still important, but it’s the path, not the destination. Many teachers fall into the unit coverage trap. They feel pressure to cover every topic and every chapter, often falling into the 'inch deep, mile wide' trap where they may rush through numerous units without ensuring deep understanding of essential skills. But here’s the reality: Coverage isn’t learning. Beginning with the units often means: • Rushing from unit to unit with the idea that students need to get through all units regardless of whether they have mastered a skill • Giving assessments which tend to focus on content or are a mishmash of skills all rolled into unit assessments rather than skill-specific assessment • Checking off curriculum boxes without ensuring students mastered anything meaningful • Backward design frees you from that pressure. When you plan with the standard as the destination, you can be selective about what content really matters. Educators can still follow the linear progression of units but should focus on the skills students need to develop, ensuring each unit meaningfully supports those skills rather than simply covering topics in order. You prioritize depth over breadth and ensure that what students learn sticks. This approach focuses on teaching skills, not just topics, ensuring that learning is intentional, purposeful, and aligned with meaningful outcomes. Backward design isn’t about throwing out your favorite lessons—it’s about making sure they fit the goal. Consider refining or replacing lessons that don’t help students reach the standard. Well-designed learning opportunities can still follow a familiar sequence, provided they build the skills students need. Revisiting and refining favorite lessons can ensure they serve a clear, intentional purpose. So, shifting from forward design to backward design can feel uncomfortable at first, especially if you’re used to planning around units. But remember: It’s not about teaching less—it’s about teaching better. ________________________________________ Visualize This Scenario: Imagine you are on a hiking trip as part of the course Hiking 101. The guide grabs a trail map and chooses a random path, with the only firm goal being to finish the hike and move on to the next one. Along the way, the guide checks your progress by seeing how far you’ve walked and whether you seem engaged. You might struggle, but the guide has only so much time to complete the hike and get ready for the next one, leaving little room for learning essential hiking skills like navigation, pacing, and managing trail challenges. While you covered ground and enjoyed the journey, taking in beautiful scenery, there was no clear purpose beyond completing the route, knowing there’s another hike tomorrow. That’s Forward Design: The guide’s main objective was simply finishing the hike to move on to the next one. Now, consider a different hiking trip. This time, the guide sets three clear goals: assessing the impact of warm-ups and accurately reading trail markers. Before the hike, the guide has you practice these two skills. The hike itself becomes the assessment, with the guide checking how well you apply those skills along the way, offering focused feedback, and giving multiple opportunities to demonstrate improvement based on specific learning targets. You still explore, enjoy the scenery, and take breaks, but every stop serves a purpose: assessing the impact of warm-ups and accurately reading trail markers. Finishing the summit is a rewarding outcome, but the real goal is developing the skills needed for the journey. And the focus of these two skills doesn’t end with the hiking trip; the guide tells you that you will be able to focus on what went well and not well on the next hike. The difference? Backward Design sets the skill goals first, ensuring that every step along the way is intentional. ________________________________________ Let’s Recap: Backward design means shifting from content-first planning to goal-first planning. It’s about focusing on what students need to learn, not just what teachers need to cover. When you start with the standard—the summit—you can design lessons that make every step count. ________________________________________ Closing: So now you are ready to embrace the messiness of backward design. Grab a standard and see you next Friday for the second in our series called This is the start of a beautiful proficiency scale. *** Have a suggestion for someone Shannon should interview, a question about an episode, or some feedback about the podcast, email Shannon here: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com . Thankyou for listening! Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
1 28 - Dr. Thomas Guskey Embraces the Messy 1:08:17
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Reproducir más Tarde Reproducir más Tarde Listas Me gusta Me gustaPeople, do I have a treat for you! Last summer I had the privilege of interviewing Dr. Thomas Guskey, and I am finally, finally getting around to sharing it with you—and I thought, what a perfect full length episode to share before the Messy Minutes Assessment Edition Special Proficiency Scale series drops this Friday! Dr. Guskey is an internationally renowned educator, researcher, and author whose career spans decades of groundbreaking contributions to education. From his early days as a middle school teacher to his influential work in grading reform, mastery learning, and educational evaluation, Dr. Guskey has shaped how educators and leaders think about teaching and learning. I also got to meet another one of my assessment heroes, and he did not disappoint. We explored his insights, his latest work, and the powerful ways we can reimagine education together. *** Contact Dr. Guskey through his website: Tguskey.com *** Have a suggestion for someone Shannon should interview, a question about an episode, or some feedback about the podcast, email Shannon here: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com . Thankyou for listening! Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
This is your host, Shannon Schinkel, from Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition, part of the Embrace the Messy Podcast, with a cool announcement! I’m thrilled to introduce something I think will make a real difference for you and your students. Over the next six episodes, we’re diving headfirst into building better assessment criteria. Designing criteria for standards is one of my favorite things to teach, but I know not everyone has access to workshops or the luxury of time to dedicate to professional development in this area. Maybe workshops conflict with your professional goals, or the idea of asking for clarification in a large group feels intimidating. Maybe traveling to see an expert just isn’t financially accessible, or you’ve been creating criteria on your own and want to see new approaches. These six episodes won’t replace hands-on learning, but they will provide practical, accessible information to help you get started. Whether you’re brand new to this or have some experience, there’s something here for everyone. Each episode is short—around 10 minutes—and builds on the last as we work through a pretend standard together, creating a polished proficiency scale by the end. And let’s be clear: there’s no single way to design criteria. What I’m sharing is my approach—what I know works. Feel free to adapt it and make it your own. Why this series? Because I know how overwhelming assessment reform can feel. You hear about it all the time but might not know where to begin. This series gives you a place to start. At the end of each episode, you’ll be ready to apply the steps to one of your own standards, building confidence and clarity as we go deeper each week. This isn’t about perfection—it’s about progress. Each episode offers practical steps to help you create meaningful, actionable criteria that reflect real learning. So, whether you’re listening on your way to work, during a coffee break, or at the end of a long day, this series is here to support you. Let’s get started, embrace the messy, and make some magic. I’ll meet you right back here on January 3rd—don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss it! *** Have a suggestion for someone Shannon should interview, a question about an episode, or some feedback about the podcast, email Shannon here: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com . Thankyou for listening! Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
In this holiday episode, we dive into a Seuss-inspired journey through the magic of feedback and growth. With a lighthearted take on assessment reform, we explore how focusing on progress over perfection can transform the learning experience. Join us for a playful yet meaningful look at how every step forward can light the way!…
When it comes to assessment reform, joy and happiness play distinct but vital roles. Joy sparks excitement in small wins—those moments when students grasp a concept or feedback clicks. Happiness, on the other hand, is the steady satisfaction that grows over time as systems take root, progress becomes evident, and the effort starts to pay off. Join me as we explore how these elements sustain us in the messy, meaningful work of transforming assessments.…
In this episode, we navigate the delicate balance between stress and overwhelm in the journey of assessment reform. Learn how to recognize the signals, manage the challenges, and decide when it’s time to pause and recharge. Whether you’re feeling stuck or seeking clarity, this conversation will guide you through the messiness with compassion and actionable insights.…
1 27 - Erik Francis Embraces MORE of the Messy 1:28:07
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Reproducir más Tarde Reproducir más Tarde Listas Me gusta Me gustaErik M. Francis is returning to the Embrace the Messy Podcast. If you didn’t catch our first conversation, I recommend you head over and check out episode 16. Erik is an international author, educator, presenter, and professional development provider with over 25+ years of experience in education. He is the author of Now That's a Good Question! How to Promote Cognitive Rigor Through Classroom Questioning published by ASCD. He is also the author of Deconstructing Depth of Knowledge: A Method and Model for Deeper Teaching and Learning and the more recent Inquiring Minds Want to Learn Posing Good Questions to Promote Student Inquiry which is the basis of our conversation today. If you love assessment, inquiry, or have a fascination with how students learn you will love this episode! *** Find Erik Francis: www.maverikeducation.com X @Maverikedu12 Instagram @maverikedu *** Have a suggestion for someone Shannon should interview, a question about an episode, or some feedback about the podcast, email Shannon here: embracethemessypodcast@gmail.com . Thankyou for listening! Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Find out more about Shannon Schinkel: https://linktr.ee/ShannonSchinkel…
In this episode, we explore the nuanced debate over testing—when it works, when it doesn’t, and how to make it meaningful. Discover how thoughtful test design and preparation can transform assessments from high-stress events into valuable learning experiences. If you’ve ever questioned the role of tests in your classroom, this conversation will provide clarity and actionable ideas. Tune in!…
In this episode, we explore the balance of student voice and choice in the classroom—where students are empowered to make decisions while teachers provide structure and guidance. We'll break down how this approach encourages autonomy without chaos, ensuring students meet learning goals while engaging meaningfully with the material. If you're ready to shift from controller to facilitator, this episode will give you the tools to start.…
1 Segment 6 - Messy Minutes: Assessment Edition - supporting teachers to take their first steps in assessment reform 8:14
In this episode, we're tackling the challenge of helping educators who are deeply rooted in traditional assessment practices take their first step toward reform. We'll explore how small, manageable changes can shift their perspective, even when there's pushback. If you’re ready to learn how empathy and patience can lead to meaningful transformation in the classroom, this episode is for you! Tune in to find out more.…
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