Battle of the War and Terrorism Experts - John Spencer vs. Robert Pape - Is Gaza Backfiring?

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John Spencer is an award-winning scholar, professor, author, combat veteran, national security and military analyst, and internationally recognized expert and advisor on urban warfare, military strategy, tactics, and other related topics. Considered one of the world’s leading experts on urban warfare, he served as an advisor to the top four-star general and other senior leaders in the U.S. Army as part of strategic research groups from the Pentagon to the United States Military Academy.

He’s authored over 130 articles in our leading intellectual publications. He is the author of three books, including The Mini-Manual for the Urban Defender, which was translated into 16 languages.

Robert A. Pape is a Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago specializing in international security affairs. His commentary on international security policy has appeared in The New York Times, Washington Post, New Republic, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, and Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, as well as on Nightline, ABC News, CBS News, CNN, Fox News, and National Public Radio. Before coming to Chicago in 1999, he taught international relations at Dartmouth College for five years and air power strategy for the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower Studies for three years. He received his PhD from the University of Chicago in 1988 and graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the University of Pittsburgh in 1982. His current work focuses on the causes of suicide terrorism and the politics of unipolarity. He is the director of the Chicago Project on Security and Threats.

0:00 Introduction

3:36 Coin Toss Decision

5:30 Robert Opening Pape's Argument

11:20 John Spencer's Counterargument

15:53 Pape Responds

29:53 Assessing Hamas's Strategic Goals

34:00 Critique on Planning for the Future

37:13 Rebuilding Democracy in the Middle East

41:01 Pape's Preferred Israeli Strategies for October 8th

42:46 Creating a Wedge Strategy

47:09 Insights from General McChrystal

49:42 Differing Military Strategies

50:23 Debating Military Approaches

51:38 Winning Battles vs. Winning Wars

55:58 Political Power Dynamics

59:00 Importance of Words in Strategy

1:01:27 Acknowledging Past Mistakes

1:04:53 Counterinsurgency Strategies

1:08:36 Role of Threat in Strategy

1:10:20 Separating Militant Groups

1:12:05 Achieving Strategic Objectives

1:12:09 Counterinsurgency Tactics

1:14:20 Importance of Meaningful Conversations

1:14:38 Sharp Arguments and Surviving Contact with the Enemy