Ep 97 Ballet Production Director Christopher Dennis

Midlife Mixtape

“That’s my call”: San Francisco Ballet’s Christopher Dennis on the obvious career path that nonetheless had to be pointed out to him, the patience and grace that comes with experience, and the ballet’s pandemic pirouette to digital delivery.

Stream the San Francisco Ballet’s 2021 season here

Ok, George Lopez, being a trendsetter!

Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the podcast – check him out here! ***This is a rough transcription of Episode 97 of the Midlife Mixtape Podcast. It originally aired on May 11, 2021. Transcripts are created using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and there may be errors in this transcription, but we hope that it provides helpful insight into the conversation. If you have any questions or need clarification, please email [e-mail] ***

Christopher Dennis 00:01

You know what? Everybody needs to understand and have a little grace. So I try to exercise that in my work today. There are challenging moments, obviously…

Nancy Davis Kho 00:12

Welcome to Midlife Mixtape, The Podcast. I’m Nancy Davis Kho and we’re here to talk about the years between being hip and breaking one.

[THEME MUSIC – “Be Free” by M. The Heir Apparent]

00:34

This episode of The Midlife Mixtape Podcast is brought to you by Audible.

Get a free audiobook download and 30 day free trial at www.AudibleTrial.com/midlifemixtape. Over 180,000 titles to choose from for your iPhone, Android Kindle or mp3 player. And hey, one of those 180,000 titles is my book, The Thank-You Project: Cultivating Happiness One Letter of Gratitude at a Time. It’s about a year I spent writing thank you letters to the people who had helped, shaped, or inspired me up to that point in my life. It gives the reader a blueprint for doing it themselves, and the science behind why gratitude and happiness are so tightly coupled… I hope it will be a tool to help readers emerge more gracefully from the pandemic! So go to www.AudibleTrial.com/midlifemixtape for your free audiobook.

[MUSIC]

Hi there people of the dual cassette boom box! I’m Nancy Davis Kho, creator and host of the Midlife Mixtape Podcast and author of The Thank-You Project. If you used to wash down your Bubble Yum with a Tab, maybe flip through your Wacky Packs to see if you got the Free Toes card, this is the podcast for YOU.

I hope all of you who are moms had a wonderful Mother’s Day, and if it was a hard day for you for any reason, I’m sending you a big squeeze too. This is the first year I don’t have anyone to send a Mother’s Day card to and I knew it would be weird, and it was. Holidays, man. They’re complicated.

But I had today’s episode to look forward to and I’m so excited for you to hear it. Before I get to it I’m going make a request – if you happen to listen to this show via Apple podcasts, on your iPhone – would you consider writing a review? I haven’t had any new reviews up there in AGES so if you haven’t written one yet, I’m hoping you’ll consider it – makes it so much easier for potential listeners to join the party here.

Throughout the pandemic I’ve been fascinated by the ways in which this horrible awful no-good very bad time has supercharged innovation and sped up solutions to longstanding problems– whether in getting a vaccine into arms in record time, or moving homeless people into hotels, or making online learning more effective. And nowhere has that been more apparent than in the way performing arts organizations have pivoted and morphed.

My guest today knows a thing or two about pivoting – although in his world that’s referred to as “pirouetting”. Christopher Dennis is currently in his tenth season as the Production Director for the San Francisco Ballet, and has been working in the performing arts industry for over 20 years. Prior to his relocation to the Bay Area, he served as the Resident Lighting Designer and Lighting Coordinator at The National Ballet of Canada for 14 seasons.

As Production Director, Christopher sits on the Executive Team and manages 4 labor unions. In addition, he oversees all of the technical logistics on major tours both nationally and internationally to all parts of the world including, but not limited to, Copenhagen, New York, Italy, Paris, Moscow, Beijing, Shanghai, Washington, D.C. and Sun Valley Idaho. Most recently he was Executive Producer for San Francisco Ballet’s 88th Virtual Gala Season and their 2021 Digital Season’s dance films COLOFROMS by Myles Thatcher and Wooden Dimes by Daniel Rowe.

Let’s turn down the houselights and tune in to what Christopher has to say.

[MUSIC]

Nancy

Welcome to the Midlife Mixtape Podcast, Christopher Dennis! I’m so pleased to have you here today.

Christopher 04:16

Oh it’s my pleasure to be here. Thank you for asking.

Nancy 04:18

I know you’ve got a lot of wisdom to share with this audience of folks “in the years between being hip and breaking one”. So I’m excited to learn more about your work. But we always start the podcast with one critical question: Christopher, what was your first concert and what were the circumstances?

Christopher 04:33

My very first concert was The Jacksons and it wasn’t the Jackson 5, but it was the Jacksons. At that time, I think it was all six brothers. I don’t even want to try to name them again.

Nancy

TITO!

Christopher

But it was Tito, Marlon, Randy, Jackie, Jermaine, and Michael.

Nancy 04:56

I think you got it.

Christopher 04:57

I got them all right. It was the Jacksons and it was the destiny tour that they did, which I don’t know if that’s the last tour they ever did together. But it was one of the biggest tours that they did together and that was my very, very first big tour. And circumstances? It’s hard to say. I was young.

Nancy 05:18

How young?

Christopher 05:19

I must have been in my early teens. I believe it was my aunt who got the tickets for myself and my brother and my cousin. I’m from Toronto, Canada so it was at the outdoor venue called the CNE Grandstand and for any of you Canadians who lived in Toronto at that time, the CNE Grandstand at the time was this very cool stage. But looking back, it was this portable stage that literally rolled out onto the baseball field.

Nancy 05:46

We all had lower expectations in the ‘70s, though. That kind of thing was still impressive.

Christopher 05:51

Yeah, it was very impressive. I just remember seeing that concert. Michael Jackson was in his heyday with his brothers. At that time, there wasn’t a lot of major black tours happening. They were one of the biggest at the time. As someone of color and living in Canada, and a tour of that nature rolled in with the headliner, Michael Jackson, the Jacksons, it was pretty special. Pretty impressive. It was fantastic.

Nancy 06:21

Do you think it had anything to do with you deciding to work in entertainment and working in such a creative field?

Christopher 06:28

Well, at that time, I was in my early DJing stage. I used to DJ a lot. So it was a great way to make income, go to parties, meet a lot of great people. My brother and I and some friends, we were DJs. My father was a DJ on a part time level. So music has always been an instrumental part of my life, and through DJing, and its technical aspects of audio and if you wanted to step it up, lighting, it was kind of my first introduction to sort of putting on as a DJ… especially in today’s world, these guys make millions of dollars compared to what was going on back in my day. But it was one of the stepping stones into the performing world, playing music and going to concerts and stuff like that.

Nancy 07:16

For those of you who don’t live in the Bay Area, you may not know that the San Francisco Ballet performs at the War Memorial Opera House, which is just a stunning piece of architecture directly across from our gold domed City Hall. It is a really special place to see ballet, of course, but it’s also an amazing place to see the rare rock concert because every once in a while, there’ll be an act that actually performs at this majestical symphony like hall.

I wondered, Christopher, did you get to go to those shows? In the Before Times, when there were shows, did you ever go to any of those? Or were you involved in them? I’m wondering if there are any that really stood out to you.

Christopher 07:57

No, I’ve been in the Bay Area just over 10 years now and the majority of my time spent in the Opera House is working on ballet. Then the few times that I went to the Opera House NOT to work on ballet was to go see an opera. Because when the ballet is not there, it’s the opera. So there’s very small windows at least in my time here for other bands or concerts or events to happen in there.

Nancy 08:26

I’m going to flex for a minute, Christopher because in 2008, I got to see David Byrne perform.* That was the first time I’d ever seen him perform and it was bonkers. It was a great, great show. It was so weird because you’re sitting there nicely dressed in these beautiful chairs and he’s up on stage. That’s what made it cool was just kind of the juxtaposition of the rock music in the hall. But at the end of this terrific, amazing show, the back doors open and from the lobby marches the Extra Action Marching Band, which is San Francisco’s own homegrown, kind of burlesque, kind of steampunk, very raunchy marching band, and they accompanied him on burning down the house. I’m pretty sure the Opera House levitated about six inches off of Van Ness Avenue in that moment.

Christopher 09:19

Well, that explains why it’s still kind of off kilter some days.

Nancy 09:23

That explains why they were like, “We don’t like concerts anymore. The Marching Band scared us.”

Well, talking about your work at the ballet, Christopher, let’s start by talking a little bit about what your role is as production director. What exactly do you do on a day-to-day basis?

Christopher 09:41

Well, I tell some people: on a day-to-day basis, I manage egos.

Nancy 09:46

How’s that go?

Christopher 09:49

I’m still writing a book on that. But in all seriousness, as the production director for the ballet, I work closely with the artistic department and I basically manage a department that is responsible for providing all of the production elements you see on stage: from sets, costumes, lighting, hair, makeup, pointe shoes that the dancers wear, their costumes, the floor they dance on. Anything technical that you see on stage falls under my purview.

With that, I have a fantastic team of individuals who help me manage all of those things. I oversee the whole project, or all of the ballets, from a production standpoint, but I work closely with the artistic director in ensuring the needs of the production. We’re kind of like a service department in that respect. I do tell people sometimes it’s like being a project manager. You’re told, “Here’s the ballet that we want to do,” and then I work with my team to manage all the expectations, from A to Z, to get us from the rehearsal to opening night performance.

Nancy 11:00

It seems to me that if you and your team do your job well, then we will never think of you. We will never have cause to notice anything but the art.

Christopher 11:08

Correct. It is one of those things that when the production itself runs flawlessly, which is what we aim for all the time, patrons leave there in awe, and it means we’ve transformed their world. We’ve provided something that was truly magical. And yes, if things don’t go right, you’ll definitely notice it.

Nancy 11:35

Right. You talked about how you got your early start as a DJ. Was this kind of the direction you always thought you would go to ballet in particular? I’m curious how you ended up in working in the ballet world.

Christopher 11:47

Well, it’s an interesting story. DJing was just a passion and love. But back in the day, especially in the early ‘80s, I never thought of DJing as a career. When I look at where DJs are today, clearly there’s a handful that are doing exceptional things. But it was a hobby. It was a way to make money and just like I said, my love for music.

But just as equally, or just as important was architecture. I had a real passion for drawing and architecture and so through school, especially in my early high school years, I was really focused on, “I want to become an architect, I want to design, I want to construct.” So I had a real affinity for that. I just loved the technicality of drawing and lettering, and the preciseness and the detail. So I thought, “I think I’d like to be an architect,” and then college was coming up.

Unfortunately, math wasn’t my strongest and it was one of those things that you needed to have a pretty strong background in math. But I enjoyed the artistry, and not so much the math around it. But it was still important.

To make a long story short, architectural school, at least at that time, seemed like a huge hurdle. I sort of pivoted to the world of theater, where I thought I could still take this passion of architecture, and performing and stuff like that, and design for the theater for stage and design sets. I thought there’s a real relationship there with architecture, and it’s not a permanent one, either because in architecture when you’re designing a building, it’s for…

Nancy 13:34

Hopefully, it’s going to stay up for a while. You want that.

Christopher 13:36

Yeah, whereas theater, it’s not permanent. It’s very temporary. I applied to theater school in Canada, more specifically, the technical theatre production program. I went to Ryerson University in Canada. That’s where I studied technical production and in doing so, like many courses that people take, whether it’s art, being a lawyer, or a doctor, or whatever it is, when you want to focus on something, you’re also introduced to a number of related subjects that sort of help and shape where it is you’re heading.

In going to theater school and wanting to design for scenery, I was introduced to stage management, prop building, carpentry, and lighting. So all of these different facets that helped put a production on and I went in there headstrong: “Set design is the only thing I want to do. I don’t care about props. I don’t care about costumes. I don’t care about anything. I just want to design sets.” As a student, you start to focus on the things that you want to do. I worked closely with the set design instructor, assisted him on many of the school productions.

But while working on set design and studying in school, lighting design was another one of the courses that I took, and I was really actually fascinated and also enjoyed it. It seemed to come natural. I actually ended up having to work harder in the profession of set design because there were things that I didn’t anticipate, just in terms of some of the research and stuff like that. Going back to taking the lighting design courses, and understanding light and color, and the impact that has, I remember doing an assignment where we had to listen to music, which, once again, going back to my DJ, I love.

Nancy 15:29

You were real sad about that assignment.

Christopher 15:33

Yeah, we had to listen to music. Then we had to pick colors and sort of create a mood with lighting that interpreted the music. I was just like, I love this exercise, right? It just was a natural thing. I didn’t work as hard and that’s not to say, oh, this was easy, but I just enjoyed it so much that it didn’t feel like hard work, as opposed to set design, which is what I really wanted to do.

All that to say, I did my lighting assignments, and I enjoyed it. I focused on my set design and in my graduating year, that was when the school puts together a production and the graduating students and other students from the different years come together. It’s a student based production. Doing all set design the whole time, I just assumed I’m going to design the set for the mainstage show, like, this is a no brainer. What else? Everybody knows, right? Because I said it. In the school, there’s a call board. It’s kind of like auditioning for a show to see what part you got and I look at the call board and it says, “Christopher Dennis- lighting design for choreographic dance works” and I went, “WHAT?”

Nancy 16:56

So Ryerson basically picked your career for you.

Christopher 17:00

I was like, “What is going on here?” I was so livid.

I marched upstairs to the production manager who was a faculty member who put the assignments together said, “Peter, what is going on here? Why am I not doing a set design? Why am I doing a lighting design?” He said, “Well, your instructor in lighting thought you’d be good at this and this is something that you should do.” I was like, “What?” Okay, well, I’m not happy about this but I’m going to do.

I was assigned the lighting design for the choreographic workshop, which entailed eight or nine different works choreographed by student choreographers. As I started to do the work and work with the choreographers – once again, in dance, the choreographers are inspired by a piece of music and then they create their choreography based on the music, or at least the music leads the steps. It’s a very abstract world. In going back to the assignment that I had with the music and the lighting, this still appeared to be like, Okay, I can do this. It wasn’t what I envisioned myself doing right now. I should have been designing a set but I can do this.

Nancy 18:23

I want to go back to Christopher of that year and go, “Just let it go with the set design. Move on.”

Christopher 18:29

Ultimately, I did let it go. I have to tell you, it was an amazing experience. I earned a whole other level of respect for dance. I actually just really embraced it and enjoyed it so much because of the artistic freedom that I had. As a lighting designer, you truly support and bring the visual support to the dance and that just really resonated with me in a way that I didn’t anticipate in my career.

Then literally my first job out of college was working for a small ballet company back home in Canada. I got my fair share. I was the technical director, set designer, lighting designer, prop. I did everything. It was jack of all trades because it was a small company and they couldn’t afford to have all the various people working in those disciplines. But the number one reason for actually working with the ballet company was because I knew I was going to design lighting and doing all the other elements of what they asked me to was just a means to an end. It was just like, I’m going to design dance. But if I design it, what do I need to do? Oh, you want me to stage manage, build the scenery, the props. I ended up having to do a number of different things, of course with other individuals, but I was responsible.

What’s interesting is my very first job out of college was a technical director for a small ballet company. It was like six or seven dancers where I had to manage all the different aspects of the company’s production. And now you fast forward to here we are today, many years later and I am now the production director of a major ballet company.

Nancy 20:10

It’s interesting having had that job, I assume in your 20s and now I also assume in your 40s, somewhere in that middle sector: how do you think you approach it differently as someone who is older and wiser?

Christopher 20:22

I think what it’s allowed me to do is be a little bit even more open and receptive and patient with people’s understanding of what they want to do. It’s also helped me bring them along in what they want to do. I have a much better understanding and appreciation as to the kinds of questions I need to ask in order to get them to where they want to be and also patience. Some days I fall short, but also a better understanding and patience for people’s learning curve.

I remember in my earlier lighting design years, I was the assistant for many productions, and then I was given an opportunity to design a show. Through this process, as an assistant, I was working with the top designers, assisting them, and they had the top crews. And then when I was given my opportunity as a lighting designer as the assistant, I wasn’t given the same level of crew. The individuals I was given, they weren’t as skilled and I was upset because they were making mistakes and I really kind of just blew up. When I say blow up, I don’t really get upset. But I felt like Hey, what’s going on? How come they can’t do what it is I’m asking?

The stage manager pulled me over and said, “Hey, they’re learning just like you are right now,” and I was just like, Alright. I had to be told because at that time, I was, like, I’m designing. They should know because I’ve watched their people know. That was a valuable lesson that to myself in my head, I was just like, You know what? Everybody needs to understand and have a little grace and so I try to exercise that in my work today. There are challenging moments, obviously, just because of the level at which we work at. There are expectations now that are much greater and for all the right reasons too.

Nancy 22:18

There is a kind of generosity that can come with having been through it yourself and looking back and saying, I remember how it felt in that role and I’m going to make it as easy for the person going through that as possible.

Christopher 22:31

By making it easy, it’s just not kind of turning a blind eye, but just making sure you’re asking the right questions and figuring out what is it that I need to support and just listening just to understand the fullness of everything. I think as a production director, and over my years of doing this work, because people look to you for the answers and sometimes in a very short amount of time, you’re making a lot of quick decisions. So it’s having that discerning eye, that discerning ear where you’re listening for specific things, you’re looking at specific things, and you’re making the decision on that spot.

Nancy 23:07

I have to tell you, there is no comparison in any world between this but it just reminded me… Our girls danced at Oakland Ballet School for 10 years and my husband volunteered backstage for the Nutcracker every year. He characterized it as “stretches of utter boredom punctuated with moments of extreme terror”. When the bear needed the bouquet to go on stage, if you don’t have that bouquet ready… and this was a commercial banker backstage just trying to do his best and try not to screw everything up for the kids. I always thought that was hilarious.

Christopher 23:43

That level of pressure actually becomes tenfold when you go on tour and you’re now given less than half the time you would normally be given to put a production onstage in a country where English is not the first language.

Nancy 23:58

Oh, my gosh.

Christopher 23:59

My career once again has taught me to figure out how to communicate so we can get what we need done.

Nancy 24:07

I can’t even imagine the challenge that comes with that, but exciting too, I suppose.

Christopher 24:10

Absolutely.

Nancy 24:14

We have to talk about how the pandemic has impacted SFB. Obviously, like many arts organizations, you could not do the thing that you were there to do, which is to entertain people in person. Can you talk a little bit about how San Francisco Ballet has adapted to be able to continue delivering beautiful ballet to its patrons? I’m really curious to know if there are things that you were kind of forced to do over the past 14 months that turned out to be something that you think will continue going forward. I think a lot of us are like, “Oh, I never would have started doing this thing had it not been for the pandemic and now I’m going to keep doing that.” Curious to know how that lands for you.

Christopher 24:55

The performing arts and the world of entertainment has really taken a hit with this, especially the live performances.

From the ballet’s perspective, once we understood COVID and of course, in learning about this, San Francisco Ballet was I believe one of the first arts organizations in the country to be shut down. Because we were opening night of a performance and all of a sudden boom, we were told this was our last performance, and the next day, there would be no show. At that time, when that information came down, and everybody was understanding, there’s this disease, there’s this pandemic, nobody anticipated the length of how long this was going to be. We thought, “Ah, we’ll be out for two weeks,” and then we thought, “Ah, maybe another two weeks.” And then two weeks turned into two months.

I guess when it became really abundantly clear was when all the shelter in place orders came in and we realized that nothing’s happening and it won’t be happening for a long time. Obviously, our development team kicked in and put together a huge fundraising efforts: the critical relief fund, so that we could keep people working, keep the doors open as we continue to try to figure out what our next steps were.

Knowing that revenue wasn’t going to come in, we wanted to keep the workforce happening. Still, it was just a real challenging time.

But I think once we understood, and it became clear what we needed to do, which was to somehow keep the dancers in shape, and keep them rehearsing so that if and when we’re called back to duty, so to speak, they’ll be ready to go. In doing so, one of the first things that we needed to actually get together was a sort of permission from the Department of Health to allow our dancers to rehearse. Because if the dancers aren’t rehearsing, we’re not going to be able to do anything.

Nancy 26:50

I was thinking about that because we talk a lot on this show about concerts and going to indie music venues, and all that stuff. Those artists can perform. Of course, it’s not the same thing. But they can stream a concert, but you cannot do a pas de deux by yourself. Can’t do that from home.

Christopher 27:04

You can’t. Of course, there were weeks where dancers were doing class, which is their conditioning as any athlete does. They would do their class in their kitchen or their bedroom, and it was all done through Zoom. We figured out how to get a teacher and a piano all through Zoom, and that people could log in from their home, and take ballet class so that they continue to stay in shape.

Although it was exciting and sort of innovative to figure out how to do this, it started to wear thin because athletes don’t train in their homes. They need to be in a facility that allows them to do the things they do: whether you play basketball, football, or whatever sport, and ballet is no exception. The dancers needed to be in their space.

So a taskforce was put together to figure it out. The first step was to get the dancers back into studios and so a lot of research was being done, some consultation. Then ultimately, we put together a proposal to the Department of Health using some of the guidelines and information from what professional teams were doing, and putting it together in a way that lends itself to what we do in the ballet world, and put together a proposal to the Department of Health so that the dancers could at least take class in the studios.

Nancy 28:36

When was that? When did you get that clearance at least?

Christopher 28:39

I want to say it was in August that we got clearance for them to do class together, or at least have class in the studio. Once we got approval for class – they were masked, all the protocols, temperature checking all of those things and we actually had to mark out the studio with like, I think it was 12-foot boxes. Basically, we couldn’t accommodate the full company the way we would normally do for a class. So we offered like a series of dance classes for the dances throughout the day, so that people could come in and actually physically be in a studio and be able to move and jump and do the things that they would normally do.

With those protocols, they literally had to come prepared in their ballet rehearsal outfits. They were given a section to put their bags down. They would take class, and they’d literally pick up their bags and they’d walk out the building. There was no locker rooms. There was no showers. There was nothing. They entered through one door exited throughout the other door.

So we started to put in these protocols just to get them in a position to at least condition and take class. As that was happening for a while, we realized that, “We’re not going to be able to perform for live audiences.” It became clear that we needed to offer a digital option. At that time, the word “pivot” was the cool word. I think when people hear it now they are like, If I hear that word one more time, I’m going to lose my mind. But at that time, the idea was to figure out how we can capture what we do. There was a combination of what can we capture and more importantly, what did we have in our vaults? What about the archives? What did we have that we could actually package in and start to distribute to the public so we can just stay relevant in people’s minds?

We’re very fortunate that we do a lot of archival captures, and those captures – as the word says, archives, they’re an archival capture of our performances that are used primarily for teaching purposes. So the captures are done really well, but they were never intended for public viewing.

But because we had a library of ballets that are archived and that were relatively new, like, had been done in the last two years… we had to get permission from our different unions, like musicians, dancers, crew, and even designers, special permission that we stream these videos just to stay relevant. We weren’t even charging people. The artistic director Helgi Tomasson curated, “Here are the videos I’d like for us to show at different times.” We would send that to our audiences.

Oh, I forgot to mention. I can’t believe I forgot this! Right after we were told that we weren’t able to perform anymore after our opening night of Midsummer – not knowing how soon we were able to perform again, we all rallied together and we actually did a capture of Midsummer.

Nancy 32:01

Midsummer Night’s Dream, not the horror movie Midsommar that my family watched recently. That one doesn’t play so well in a ballet.

Christopher 32:09

That’s right. Everybody rallied together and through our partnership with the San Francisco Opera, they have a very lovely media suite that’s built into the Opera House, meaning there’s built in cameras, and a full editing suite, all the equipment was already there. We actually did, I think, an eight-camera capture of Midsummer Night’s Dream. Then we edited it and then we released it, probably like a week or so after we had been shut down. It was sent to those individuals who already were paying customers to see Midsummer.

That was actually our first sort of How do we do this? Everybody was on board because of what had happened and everybody wanted to do the right thing. But of course, at that time, we didn’t think what we were doing was going to be not only the right thing, but the ONLY thing we were going to be able to do for the unforeseen future. We knew that our season was approaching, and we did receive word that it doesn’t look like we’re going to be able to do Nutcracker. In knowing that, we just realized, well, if we’re not going to do Nutcracker, it’s highly unlikely we’re going to be performing for the rest of the season.

Nancy 33:29

The season runs from?

Christopher 33:31

January to May.

Nancy 33:32

That’s pandemic. That’s right in the middle of it.

Christopher 33:35

That was right in the middle of the pandemic. The planning team just got together and we started to think about, how are we going to do this, and what do we want to do? Ultimately, we had a capture of the Nutcracker that was shot with PBS in 2009, or something. The company did a really nice capture that we then used for streaming purposes for Nutcracker.

Nancy 34:03

Just to be clear, the audience could purchase. It’s just the same as streaming anything else. You can buy your ticket, and you can stream it onto your TV at home.

Christopher 34:18

Correct. There was a platform put together to do Nutcracker specifically. It was packaged lovely by the marketing department so that although you couldn’t come to the Opera House, we could bring the Nutcracker to your house. There was a whole marketing plan and packaging around that and while that was being prepared, we really started to plan about what the rest of our rep seasons going to look like.

Helgi Tomasson had two new ballets planned for the stage and so he thought it would be great to capture those two ballets instead, and they’ll be packaged with archives of other ballets that we had planned on doing live. We were going to package three new films alongside our existing archives. He talked to the choreographers, Danny Rowe who did Wooden Dimes, Myles Thatcher who did Colorforms and Cathy Marston, who did Mrs. Robinson, and they were all excited about the idea of filming their work. I wouldn’t say we struggled, but we had to go back and forth, like, “Are we capturing what they would normally do on stage? Or are we creating an essence of dance film?” Boy, did we learn a lot. Ultimately, we ended up creating dance films, and not just a stage capture, like what we did with Midsummer Night’s Dream when we were closing because of the pandemic.

Nancy 35:51

I love going to SFB, but it was not always easy to get there. The way the season is program. There’s programs one through what? Eight?

Christopher 36:01

Eight.

Nancy 36:02

Each program has usually three dances and if I made two programs, I felt like that was good. Coming over from Oakland, working, it wasn’t always easy. We have watched every digital program so far, and the ones that absolutely had me city bolt upright were the dance films. Because in Colorforms, you had dancers dancing around the Museum of Modern Art in San Francisco and outdoors, and Wooden Dimes, I thought it was so incredibly creative and innovative. I still love the ones where one of the captures, so it felt like you were sitting in the Opera House watching the ballet. But I just thought, WOW. I hope you’ll continue to do that because I may still never be able to come to every program in person. But I would love to have the option to watch some version of it digitally. I think it’s such a cool way to bring in a wider audience and an audience that’s beyond the Bay Area.

Christopher 37:00

Absolutely. I think once again, this is one of the takeaways, happy accidents, however you want to position it that we’ve now developed an audience base watching ballet through digital means. With that said, the priority of the ballet is still to get on stage and be live. I think there’s nothing that beats that. But with that said, we’ve learned so much and I think everyone has a new appreciation for it.

I still think in the ballet world, it’s not everybody’s cup of tea. People do want that sort of in person relationship, emotionally, physically with the art form. I do miss it as well as from its live standpoint. But what was really great about working on the dance films, and with the choreographers, for the organization, we brought these two worlds of the world of film and the world of live performing arts together and we both learned from one another. We learned how to work with directors and cinematographers. They learned how to work with dancers in our sort of world, bringing the two worlds together to really hone in and view the world of dance through a lens.

Because you’re now directing what people are going to see and feel through film versus you coming in and watching the full stage, and you’re in control of where your head’s directed and how you’re looking at it. But in film, we’re giving you that direction where we’re telling you, “Here’s what you’re going to look at now, here’s what you’re going to look at now.” It’s a different relationship. It creates a different feeling. There was also concern about the length of how long some of these films were going to be, because to sit and watch 15 minutes of dance on film is different than watching it live and how that story gets translated and how does that feel, and do people have the capacity or the discipline to sit and watch something for 15 minutes of dance? Unless you’re a true bona fide dance lover, and even then I think that can feel really long.

The magic of film really gave us as a ballet company the opportunity to think differently about how we want to present dance in the future. It’s been embraced by so many. I know we’d like to do more. I think some of it might be project based. Our priority is definitely to get onstage and perform. But in doing that, and knowing the world is starting to feel a little better, we still need to have a contingency in our pocket around how we might kind of do both still. We just don’t know what audience behavior is going to be like, and we may need to be prepared to offer some level of digital.

We haven’t talked about it and like we’re going to do it for sure. But we are talking about it in terms of how do we do both. It’s interesting – if you look at some of the big movie houses, like Warner Brothers, they’re releasing movies to both cinema and to home streaming services because they’ve realized that not everybody’s going to go there, but we want people to see our films. Ultimately, COVID has accelerated things that were inevitably going to happen. It just happened much sooner.

Nancy 40:19

As an aside, it’s been a boon for me. Because it would not be cool for me during an actual ballet in the Opera House to lean over to my very knowledgeable daughter and say, “Who’s the girl on the right? Did I see her dancing something else? Isn’t she married to that other guy?” Because I have a lot of questions, Christopher. She knows the answers and she’ll be like, “Okay. Pause. Mom!” I like being able to ask questions.

Christopher 40:42

Absolutely.

Nancy 40:44

Alright. Well, we are coming up to the end of our time, but we always like to close the podcast with one important question, which is: what one piece of advice do you have for people younger than you? Or do you wish you could go back and tell yourself?

Christopher 40:57

The one piece of advice would be to continue to stay true to yourself with your goals and your dreams and don’t let anybody try to derail that, and just really continue to strive for what it is and who you want to be.

I know there was a time in going to school I was questioned, like, “I don’t know if this is for you.” It wasn’t even about set or lighting. It was just about, “I don’t know if this is for you,” and I was just like, “Whoa whoa whoa. That’s not your call. That’s my call.” When that conversation happened early in my career, I was like, “No, no, no, I’m going to do what I need to do to do this. But if I’m going to decide that I’m not going to do this, that’s because it’s my decision and not someone else thinking, ‘I don’t think this is for you.’” I tell that to my kids today, just continue to stay true to who you are, and do what you have to do, so you could do what you want to do.

Nancy 41:49

That’s great advice. I appreciate you sharing it with us. I appreciate you sharing your experience of this crazy time for the ballet, and I will look forward to seeing it in person myself. I really am grateful for your time today.

Christopher 42:04

Yeah, thank you. I’m happy that I could do this. I’m glad you invited me. I do hope everybody gets an opportunity to come see us when we’re back on stage.

Nancy 42:15

I’ll see you the next time David Byrne plays the Opera House too. You have to come there. I’ll buy us tickets.

Christopher 42:21

I’m a big fan, so that would be great. Maybe we could do a collaboration with David Byrne and the ballet. I think that would actually be better.

Nancy 42:29

I would be under my chair. I’m not sure I would be able to go! Like the Prince/Misty Copeland collaboration! We need more ballet and pop performers working together.

Christopher 42:39

We want to make it accessible. We want to broaden our audience and if it takes David Byrne or whoever…

Nancy 42:45

If you have to work with David Byrne, I guess you’d make that sacrifice. Is that what you’re saying? You’re such a giver. You’re a giver.

Christopher 42:52

I’m a giver. Absolutely.

Nancy 42:51

Alright. Thanks so much, Christopher.

Christopher 42:55

Thank you.

[MUSIC]

Nancy 43:00

Alright everyone – let’s visualize a David Byrne/SFB collaboration, shall we? I think if we all close our eyes and chant “This Must Be the Place” ten times, we’ll manifest it. Click your heels 10 times for good measure.

There are still a few programs left in the San Francisco Ballet’s digital season – just go to https://www.sfballet.org/tickets/2021-season/. You can stream them right into the comfort of your home! Program 5 wraps up tomorrow, May 12^th, and then they’re finishing out the season with two story ballets – Romeo & Juliet, and Swan Lake. I believe in baseball that’s called sending in the cleanup hitters.

Let me know what you thought of today’s show! I love hearing from listeners – you can drop me a line at [e-mail], or send me a message via Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @midlifemixtape. I don’t know if you listened to Episode 96 where we were sharing stories of the albums of our lives but one of the listeners wrote me the greatest email and let me know that she too was in Vienna same semester as me probably also walking down the Danube listening to Peter Gabriel So. It was really cool to make that connection

Join me next time when I speak with someone whose specialty is coaching midlifers into taking some time OFF. Do I have your attention now? Have a great week and thank you thank you thank you for making Midlife Mixtape a part of your audio landscape!

[THEME MUSIC – “Be Free” by M. The Heir Apparent]

*Upon editing this episode it came to me suddenly: I didn’t see David Byrne at the Opera House, it was a Davies Symphony Hall next door! Forehead smack. And yet…I would give anything to see David Byrne collaborate with SFB so I’m holding my ground on that. ~Nancy

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